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From Grant Ingersoll <gsing...@apache.org>
Subject Re: modularization discussion
Date Mon, 02 May 2011 22:11:44 GMT

On Apr 27, 2011, at 11:45 PM, Greg Stein wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 09:25:14AM -0400, Yonik Seeley wrote:
>> ...
>> But as I said... it seems only fair to meet half way and use the solr namespace
>> for some modules and the lucene namespace for others.
> 
> Please explain this part to me... I really don't understand.

At the risk of speaking for someone else, I think it has to do w/ wanting to maintain brand
awareness for Solr.  We, as the PMC, currently produce two products:  Apache Lucene and Apache
Solr.  I believe Yonik's concern is that if everything is just labeled Lucene, then Solr is
just seen as a very thin shell around Lucene (which, IMO, would still not be the case, since
wiring together a server app like Solr is non-trivial, but that is my opinion and I'm not
sure if Yonik share's it).  Solr has never been a thin shell around Lucene and never will
be.   However, In some ways, this gets at why I believe Yonik was interested in a Solr TLP:
so that Solr could stand on it's own as a brand and as a first class Apache product steered
by a PMC that is aligned solely w/ producing the Solr (i.e. as a TLP) product as opposed to
the two products we produce now.  (Note, my vote on such a TLP was -1, so please don't confuse
me as arguing for the point, I'm just trying to, hopefully, explain it)

That being said, 99% of consumers of Solr never even know what is in the underlying namespace
b/c they only ever interact w/ Solr via HTTP (which has solr in the namespace by default)
at the server API level, so at least in my mind, I don't care what the namespace used underneath
is.  Call it lusolr for all I care.

> 
> What does "fairness" have to do with the codebase?

I can't speak to this, but perhaps it's just the wrong choice of words and would have been
better said: please don't take this as a reason to gut Solr and call everything Lucene.

> Isn't the whole
> point of the Lucene project to create the best code possible, for the
> benefit of our worldwide users?

It is.  We do that primarily through the release of two products: Lucene and Solr.  Lucene
is a Java class library.  A good deal of programming is required to create anything meaningful
in terms of a production ready search server.  Solr is a server that takes and makes most
things that are programming tasks in Lucene configuration tasks as well as adds a fair bit
of functionality (distributed search, replication, faceting, auto-suggest, etc.) and is thus
that much easier to put in production (I've seen people be in production on Solr in a matter
of days/weeks, I've never seen that in Lucene)  The crux of this debate is whether these additional
pieces are better served as modules (I think they are) or tightly coupled inside of Solr (which
does have a few benefits from a dev. point of view, even though I firmly believe they are
outweighed by the positives of modularization.)    And, while I think most of us agree that
modularization makes sense, that doesn't mean there aren't reasons against it.  I also believe
we need to take it on a case by case basis.  I also don't think every patch has to be in it's
final place on first commit.  As Otis so often says, it's just software.  If it doesn't work,
change it.  Thus, if people contribute and it lands in Solr, the committer who commits it
need not immediately move it (although, hopefully they will) or ask the contributor to do
so, as that will likely dampen contributions.  Likewise for Lucene.  Along with that, if and
when others wish to refactor, then they should by all means be allowed to do so assuming of
course, all tests across both products still pass.

In short, I believe people should still contribute where they see they can add the most value
and according to their time schedules.  Additionally, others who have more time or the ability
to refactor for reusability should be free to do so as well.  

I don't know what the outcome of this thread should be, so I guess we need to just move forward
and keep coding away and working to make things better.  Do others see anything broader here?
 A vote?  That would be symbolic, I guess, but doesn't force anyone to do anything since there
isn't a specific issue at hand other than a broad concept that is seen as "good".

-Grant
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