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From "Itamar Syn-Hershko" <ita...@code972.com>
Subject RE: Adding CLucene as a Lucene subproject
Date Tue, 01 Jun 2010 14:57:36 GMT
Grant,

Thanks for your reply, and for the PMC on their time.

I understand your reasoning. We hoped becoming a Lucene sub-project will
bring us more attention. Being a TLP may miss that goal, although being an
ASF TLP definitely has benefits of its own.

We will discuss this internally and resume from there.

Thanks again.

Itamar. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Ingersoll [mailto:gsiasf@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Grant Ingersoll
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 5:27 PM
To: dev@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: Adding CLucene as a Lucene subproject

Hi Itamar,

Sorry for the delay, the holiday weekend snuck up on me sooner than I
thought it would. 

The consensus on CLucene is that it should go through incubation with the
idea of becoming a TLP on its own, if it wishes to be a part of the ASF.
The primary reason for this is the ASF tries to focus TLPs on a particular
community with a particular set of goals/committers/contributors and to not
overlap them with other communities that may have different goals.  On the
surface it would seem CLucene has some overlap (same name, same file
format), but it is pretty clear the overlap stops there in terms of the
actual users, contributors, code repositories, committers, etc.  (And yes,
this is true, to some extent except for the fact that they are mostly
auto-generated, for the other ports here as well and that is something we
are evaluating).  If you're still interested in being a part of the ASF, I'd
put together and present your proposal over on general@incubator.apache.org.
Before you go into incubation, you may wish to read up a bit more on the ASF
and how projects are expected to run, as it may be different from what you
are used to vis-a-vis running a project on Source Forge.  See
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html for more information, as
well as http://incubator.apache.org.

-Grant


On May 31, 2010, at 5:49 AM, Itamar Syn-Hershko wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Have the PMC came to a decision on this?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Itamar. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grant Ingersoll [mailto:gsiasf@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Grant 
> Ingersoll
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:30 PM
> To: dev@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Adding CLucene as a Lucene subproject
> 
> Hi Itamar,
> 
> The PMC is discussing this internally.   It is pretty clear at this point
> that CLucene needs to go through Incubation, so by all means start the 
> process there (see http://incubator.apache.org).  Also, keep in mind, 
> that many things have changed for Lucene in regards to subprojects in 
> recent months, so despite the fact that we have other "ports" under 
> Lucene right now due to legacy reasons, it doesn't imply that adding 
> another would be good for this particular TLP.  That isn't to say that 
> CLucene doesn't have a place at the ASF.  Generally speaking, the ASF does
not want "umbrella"
> projects covering disjoint communities b/c it often leads to 
> unnecessary bureaucratic problems at the PMC level related to things 
> like voting, releases, project direction, etc.
> 
> At any rate, we should be wrapping up our PMC discussion by tomorrow, 
> so I will update this thread at that time.
> 
> Thanks,
> Grant
> 
> On May 26, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Itamar Syn-Hershko wrote:
> 
>> Earwin,
>> 
>> Considering the fact that Lucy is not planning on complementing 
>> Lucene's API, while CLucene's goal is to be a one-by-one port, I 
>> would say no relationship. Also, CLucene is written in C++ and not C.
>> 
>> Re. Sphinx - I'm not familiar enough with it to really comment on 
>> this, but I'd assume this is more of a Lucene vs Sphinx question. Do 
>> the prons and cons, throw in some benchmarks, and then give CLucene a 
>> couple of extra points for being cross-platform, and 5-10 times 
>> faster than the equivallent Lucene version. I had a quick look, and 
>> it seems like Lucene is much more scalable (esp. considering the 
>> latest
>> developments) and some even claim that "Lucene performance is unmatched".
>> 
>> Also, unless a restrictive license isn't a show stopper for you, 
>> Sphinx is released under GPL.
>> 
>> Itamar. 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Earwin Burrfoot [mailto:earwin@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:06 AM
>> To: dev@lucene.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Adding CLucene as a Lucene subproject
>> 
>> I wonder, what's going to be the relationship between this and Lucy?
>> Also, how do both of them compare to Sphinx?
>> 
>> 2010/5/27 Itamar Syn-Hershko <itamar@code972.com>:
>>> Ryan, thanks. I understand, and obviously if the PMC will think the 
>>> same this is what we'll be doing.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, I haven't heard from the PMC yet, and I'm not sure 
>>> where this is going exactly. If the proposal is what keeping this 
>>> from being discussed, do let me know. Otherwise, I'm hoping someone 
>>> with good knowledge of this process could respond and help us move 
>>> this forward. I can be contacted privately if needed.
>>> 
>>> Itamar.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ryan McKinley [mailto:ryantxu@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:31 AM
>>> To: dev@lucene.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Adding CLucene as a Lucene subproject
>>> 
>>> Thanks Itamar-
>>> 
>>> Apologies since the last email is not very clear...   Not speaking as 
>>> the PMC, my feeling is that for this an incubation process will be 
>>> needed.  With Apache, the projects are more about the community then 
>>> the code -- since there exists a CLucene community with its own 
>>> culture etc, i think the incubation process makes sense (that is the 
>>> whole point of the incubator - in my opinion)  For incubation, 
>>> CLucene would need a champion
>>> 
>>> again, just throwing it out there, and *not* speaking as the PMC.
>>> 
>>> ryan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Itamar Syn-Hershko 
>>> <itamar@code972.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Ryan,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not familiar with the Apache way of doing things. It is my
>>> understanding
>>>> that if the invitation is initiated by the PMC itself, no 
>>>> incubation
>>> process
>>>> nor a champion are required. Considering CLucene's age and proven
>>> stability,
>>>> I was hoping we could go that route. If we need a PMC member as a
>>> champion,
>>>> may this be a call for one.
>>>> 
>>>> Considering CLucene is targetting a very different users base than 
>>>> Lucene is, I don't see how it can possibly be a distraction. On the 
>>>> countrary - many optimizations done in CLucene back in the old days 
>>>> were later adapted by Lucene itself, and I'm sure this will continue.
>>>> Also, I believe CLucene has a great part in promoting Lucene, 
>>>> especially among non-Java
>>> developers.
>>>> So, I don't see how CLucene is a moot point more than Lucene.Net 
>>>> for
>>> example
>>>> has ever been.
>>>> 
>>>> I would love to be working with anyone to get this process properly
>>> defined
>>>> and started. A proposal is being worked on.
>>>> 
>>>> Itamar.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Ryan McKinley [mailto:ryantxu@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:51 PM
>>>> To: dev@lucene.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Adding CLucene as a Lucene subproject
>>>> 
>>>> Having skimmed most of the thread...
>>>> 
>>>> It seems the question of if CLucene should be a sub-project may be
>>> premature
>>>> considering that it would really need someone in the PMC to 
>>>> champion it -- do the real work to make it happen.
>>>> 
>>>> I can see many ways this could be a good addition to lucene land, I 
>>>> can
>>> also
>>>> see many ways that it may just be a distraction.  Unless someone 
>>>> actually can work with them, it is a moot point.
>>>> 
>>>> ryan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Itamar Syn-Hershko 
>>>> <itamar@code972.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Following a recent discussion with Otis, I would like to request 
>>>>> for the CLucene project to join the ASF, as a sub-project of Lucene.
>>>>> 
>>>>> CLucene is an important port of Lucene, and is being used very 
>>>>> widely for a few years now. The project aims to be attractive to 
>>>>> people who like to use Lucene but wants to increase performance or 
>>>>> reduce the overheads of using a JVM, for C++ developers; and 
>>>>> eventually for users of various high-level or scripting languages.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We are currently hosting on SourceForge; our latest release 
>>>>> conforms to Java Lucene 1.9.1, but the master branch in our git 
>>>>> repository works with 2.3.2 indexes, and is being worked on for a 
>>>>> while
> now.
>>>>> More info is available in our website
>>>>> (http://clucene.sourceforge.net/) and project page
>> (https://sourceforge.net/projects/clucene/).
>>>>> 
>>>>> CLucene is currently released under the LGPL and the Apache 2.0 
>>>>> licenses (dual). If this needs changing, we will need some legal 
>>>>> help to do that correctly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please advise on how to pursue this, and what needs to be done 
>>>>> from our
>>>> end.
>>>>> This move is very important to us, and could also benefit the 
>>>>> Lucene community. Hopefully, we could make this happen.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Itamar.
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kirill Zakharenko/Кирилл Захаренко (earwin@gmail.com)
>> Phone: +7 (495) 683-567-4
>> ICQ: 104465785
>> 
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> 
> 
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--------------------------
Grant Ingersoll
http://www.lucidimagination.com/

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