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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:46:32 -0400
From: Mark Miller <markrmiller@gmail.com>
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To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org
Subject: Re: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-1678) Deprecate Analyzer.tokenStream
References: <187353930.1244640487639.JavaMail.jira@brutus>
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Michael McCandless (JIRA) wrote:
>     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-1678?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12718080#action_12718080 ] 
>
> Michael McCandless commented on LUCENE-1678:
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> bq. The way Lucene stuff generally goes, if someone like Grant or Mike really wanted to push changes, the changes would happen. 
>
> Well, it's consensus that we all need to reach (at least enough
> consensus to vote on it), and on complex topics it's not easy to get
> to consensus.
>   
Right. I didn't mean you guys could ram it down everyones throats - I 
basically meant, if you wanted to build the censuses, and you thought 
the idea was good - you could do it easier than many of the new guys 
might think. I've seen it happen before.
> bq. Giving up is really not the answer though - thats why the discussion has come and gone in the past.
>
> I don't think anyone has given up.  The issue still smoulders and
> flares up here and there (like, this issue).  Eventually we'll get
> enough consensus for something concrete to change.
>   
I think some of the newer people in the community do sink into a give up 
mentality (based on the comments I've seen). I think the issue is, and 
the reason I even responded to this to begin with, people jump to 
conclusions about whats going on here. They think the committers are 
stubborn and/or stuck in our old ways. That we are too in love with our 
back compat policy ;) Its common for some of us to point out things that 
slow issues down, and we don't always contribute much towards pushing 
some issues forward. Some of the newer guys in the community have gotten 
the wrong idea about that. Things tend to happen slowly, but with 
persistence they do happen. Lucene is kind of a conservative project, 
but I don't like the idea that some of the newer guys see things as 
locked up. I've been around long enough to know they are not. Everything 
is up for debate, and things have been moving steadily towards progress 
in Lucene land. Again, its like a constitution though - if it was easy 
to whip around the rules, we would have a lot of problems. When I make 
comments for or against something, I try and think about whats best for 
the community. I think others likely do the same thing.

Anyway, when I see those comments, I think - there is no need to lash 
out with little jives. Persistence will move things forward. It is about 
censuses building, and that takes time and effort. More for some than 
others. The funny thing is, from what I've seen, when push comes to 
shove, its easier to get consensus around here than some of the email 
discussions might suggest. It just takes effort and persistence.
>
> bq. I have no moral right to hammer my ideals into heads that did tremendously more for the project, than I did.
>
> In fact you do & should.  This is exactly how change happens.  Here's
> a great (though sexist) quote:
>
> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Sha
Right. Even though I think some of the newer guys have an odd (minor) 
disrespect for what came before them (when Lucene was younger, most of 
these issues didn't yet exist! And the project has been very 
successful/stable thus far), I am extremely happy that there are a bunch 
of new people shaking things up. I'd rather they didnt go away (thinking 
we Lucene is locked up in insanity) or stop talking about improving back 
compat :)

-- 
- Mark

http://www.lucidimagination.com


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