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From "John Wang" <john.w...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-1473) Implement Externalizable in main top level searcher classes
Date Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:36:28 GMT
Grant:
        I am sorry that I disagree with some points:

1) "I think it's a sign that Lucene is pretty stable." - While lucene is a
great project, especially with 2.x releases, great improvements are made,
but do we really have a clear picture on how lucene is being used and
deployed. While lucene works great running as a vanilla search library, when
pushed to limits, one needs to "hack" into lucene to make certain things
work. If 90% of the user base use it to build small indexes and using the
vanilla api, and the other 10% is really stressing both on the scalability
and api side and are running into issues, would you still say: "running well
for 90% of the users, therefore it is stable or extensible"? I think it is
unfair to the project itself to be measured by the vanilla use-case. I have
done couple of large deployments, e.g. >30 million documents indexed and
searched in realtime., and I really had to do some tweaking.

2) "You want stuff committed, keep it up to date, make it manageable to
review, document it, respond to questions/concerns with answers as best you
can. " - To some degree I would hope it depends on what the issue is, e.g.
enforcing such process on a one-line null check seems to be an overkill. I
agree with the process itself, what would make it better is some
transparency on how patches/issues are evaluated to be committed. At least
seemed from the outside, it is purely being decided on by the committers,
and since my understanding is that an open source project belongs to the
public, the public user base should have some say.

3) which brings me to this point: "I personally, would love to work on
Lucene all day every day as I have a lot of things I'd love to engage the
community on, but the fact is I'm not paid to do that, so I give what I can
when I can.  I know most of the other committers are that way too." - Is
this really true? Isn't a large part of the committer base also a part of
the for-profit, consulting business, e.g. Lucid? Would groups/companies that
pay for consulting service get their patches/requirements committed with
higher priority? If so, seems to me to be a conflict of interest there.

4) "Lather, rinse, repeat.   Next thing you know, you'll be on the receiving
end as a committer." - While I agree that being a committer is a great honor
and many committers are awesome, but assuming everyone would want to be a
committer is a little presumptuous.

In conclusion, I hope I didn't unleash any wrath from the committers for
expressing candor.

-John

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Grant Ingersoll <gsingers@apache.org> wrote:

>
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 2:27 PM, Jason Rutherglen (JIRA) wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Hoss wrote: "sort of mythical "Lucene powerhouse"
>> Lucene seems to run itself quite differently than other open source Java
>> projects.  Perhaps it would be good to spell out the reasons for the
>> reluctance to move ahead with features that developers work on, that work,
>> but do not go in.  The developer contributions seem to be quite low right
>> now, especially compared to neighbor projects such as Hadoop.  Is this
>> because fewer people are using Lucene?  Or is it due to the reluctance to
>> work with the developer community?  Unfortunately the perception in the eyes
>> of some people who work on search related projects it is the latter.
>>
>
>
> Or, could it be that Hadoop is relatively new and in vogue at the moment,
> very malleable and buggy(?) and has a HUGE corporate sponsor who dedicates
> lots of resources to it on a full time basis, whilst Lucene has been around
> in the ASF for 7+ years (and 12+ years total) and has a really large install
> base and thus must move more deliberately and basically has 1 person who
> gets to work on it full time while the rest of us pretty much volunteer?
>  That's not an excuse, it's just the way it is.  I personally, would love to
> work on Lucene all day every day as I have a lot of things I'd love to
> engage the community on, but the fact is I'm not paid to do that, so I give
> what I can when I can.  I know most of the other committers are that way
> too.
>
> Thus, I don't think any one of us has a reluctance to move ahead with
> features or bug fixes.   Looking at CHANGES.txt, I see a lot of
> contributors.  Looking at java-dev and JIRA, I see lots of engagement with
> the community.  Is it near the historical high for traffic, no it's not, but
> that isn't necessarily a bad thing.  I think it's a sign that Lucene is
> pretty stable.
>
> What we do have a reluctance for are patches that don't have tests (i.e.
> this one), patches that massively change Lucene APIs in non-trivial ways or
> break back compatibility or are not kept up to date.  Are we perfect?  Of
> course not.  I, personally, would love for there to be a way that helps us
> process a larger volume of patches (note, I didn't say commit a larger
> volume).  Hadoop's automated patch tester would be a huge start in that, but
> at the end of the day, Lucene still works the way all ASF projects do: via
> meritocracy and volunteerism.     You want stuff committed, keep it up to
> date, make it manageable to review, document it, respond to
> questions/concerns with answers as best you can.  To that end, a real simple
> question can go a long way and getting something committed, and it simply
> is:  "Hey Lucener's,  what else can I do to help you review and commit
> LUCENE-XXXX?"  Lather, rinse, repeat.   Next thing you know, you'll be on
> the receiving end as a committer.
>
> -Grant
>
>
>
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