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From "Bruce Ritchie" <br...@jivesoftware.com>
Subject RE: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-665) temporary file access denied on Windows
Date Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:58:44 GMT
> The proper solution is to have your software installer disable the 
> indexing on the directory.

I think you are stuck on indexing ... It's not just indexing, it can be
any software that uses this windows api.

> If you don't any index updates are going to be abysmally slow anyway
> - and if you do a lot you will bring your clients systems to their 
> knees (sounds like a bad situation for them).
>
> You should also document in the installation guide for your software
the
> requirements, and how certain software packages (indexers and virus
scanners)
> should be disable on the your software packages data directories.

I don't disagree about documenting the potential issues, indeed it's a
very valid suggestion. However your suggestion to disable virus scanners
I believe is not reasonable for consumers, nor is the ability to diable
even possible in a lot of cases without an uninstall.


I see we are not going to agree on this potential solution to this issue
so I'm going to disengage from this discussion - I believe I've made my
view clear enough for those who have commit abilities to take it into
consideration.


Regards,

Bruce Ritchie

On Sep 13, 2006, at 3:37 PM, Bruce Ritchie wrote:

> I'm afraid it's just not that simple. Lucene is not a server 
> application as you claimed in your first reply - it's a java based 
> search library.
> Just because it's most often used on servers does not equate to it 
> always being used on servers for which disabling the index service is 
> a reasonable thing to do. We use it in a desktop application in 
> addition to server applications, and being a java based application we

> want to neither have to tell our clients to disable indexing, or 
> tortoisesvn, or any other software they may have, nor to have to 
> insert something into the registry (if indeed such a thing exists).
>
> Now, I'm not expecting lucene to be able to recover if a virus scanner

> decides to mangle an index file or any other such extreme behavior, 
> but I do expect it to behave correctly in the face of what I believe 
> is a common enough issue on a very commonly used OS. While it would be

> ideal for Java itself to workaround the issue I don't think we can 
> expect that to happen for a while.
>
>
> Our few choices now are to have a custom directory which has the 
> simple workaround in it, patch lucene everytime we have a new release,

> or ignore the issue and have customers complain. While patching lucene

> is possible for me I personally think this a worthy enough issue to be

> included into lucene proper.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce Ritchie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: robert engels [mailto:rengels@ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 4:13 PM
> To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-665) temporary file access 
> denied on Windows
>
> Start -> Administrative Tools -> Windows Indexing Service -> Disable
>
> On Sep 13, 2006, at 3:09 PM, eks dev wrote:
>
>> not promoting, "let lucene fix all Winblows problems", just saying, 
>> if
>
>> someone has cool, simple trick in patch form, that hurts nobody, 
>> would
>
>> be nice to accept it. Enough people burned their fingers on this one
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Chris Hostetter <hossman_lucene@fucit.org>
>> To: java-dev@lucene.apache.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September, 2006 10:04:05 PM
>> Subject: RE: [jira] Commented: (LUCENE-665) temporary file access 
>> denied on Windows
>>
>> : While what you say is true about indexing should be disabled, that
>> : really doesn't solve the actual issue. Administrators of 
>> applications
>> : using lucene often do not have control over the actual machine and 
>> thus
>> : cannot determine what is and is not installed. Besides that, many 
>> of
>
>> us
>>
>> no, but they can st the operating params of the software they support
>> -- as far as i can tell based on what i've read about the issue, the 
>> problem stems from software that does what seems to be the equivilent

>> of trying to open any file that has recently been closed by any other

>> app ... as a java library Lucene shouldn't be expected to guard 
>> against that any more then it should be expected to guard against the

>> possibility of people randmoly renaming or deleting files in the 
>> index
>
>> directory -- Lucene makes some files, and it expects to manage them 
>> without interference from anything else -- as long as that 
>> expectation
>
>> is documented (and i'll admit, those expectations could be documented

>> more thoroughly) then i think our work here is done.
>>
>> Dealing withthis problem becomes the topic of a FAQ about the cause 
>> with a pointer to a Wiki explaining the details and (*hopefully*) a 
>> list of crazy registry hacks you can use to disable it on a per 
>> directory basis.
>>
>> (DISCLAIMER: I am not saying such hacks exist, merely that i hope 
>> some
>
>> method of disabling this "feature" exists and if it does pointeres on

>> how to do so would be useful)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Hoss
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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