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From Ceki Gülcü <c...@qos.ch>
Subject RE: ObjectRenderers
Date Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:45:50 GMT

I see where you are coming from. However, in this case, you are really
not contributing in the sense of the Apache License.  You are asking
for help about the "Work" but not contributing any changes or
enhancements to it in the form of code.

In general, I find it quite unreasonable to ask for help and engage in
a discussion and ask those that help you to erase that discussion from
their minds. Under these conditions, it is preferable not to
participate in the discussion.

At 07:01 PM 12/10/2004, Rieser, Michael (SCI TW) wrote:

> > >THIS IS NOT A CONTRIBUTION.
> >
> > What does this disclaimer supposed to mean, that we should not read
> > it? If we can't read it, then why are you posting it on an open forum?
>
>Again, sorry, but the legal department has commanded us to do this. I'm 
>just trying to comply with their instructions, but also answer reasonable 
>questions, and your help is appreciated.
>
>I'm caught in the conflict of wanting to answer your question:
>         "Would you care to explain how you'd like exceptions to be 
> displayed?"
>
>and the fact that all information sent to Apache is deemed by Apache to be 
>a contribution unless otherwise stated, therefore the legal department has 
>required us to put "NOT A CONTRIBUTION" on things sent to Apache.
>
>I believe legal's concern comes from the following definition in the 
>Apache 2.0 License.
>
>       "Contribution" shall mean any work of authorship, including
>       the original version of the Work and any modifications or additions
>       to that Work or Derivative Works thereof, that is intentionally
>       submitted to Licensor for inclusion in the Work by the copyright owner
>       or by an individual or Legal Entity authorized to submit on behalf of
>       the copyright owner. For the purposes of this definition, "submitted"
>       means any form of electronic, verbal, or written communication sent
>       to the Licensor or its representatives, including but not limited to
>       communication on electronic mailing lists, source code control systems,
>       and issue tracking systems that are managed by, or on behalf of, the
>       Licensor for the purpose of discussing and improving the Work, but
>       excluding communication that is conspicuously marked or otherwise
>       designated in writing by the copyright owner as "Not a Contribution."
>
>So, it is due to Apache's License that we are instructed to do what we do.
>
>(Personally, I don't know what rights we have to things posted publicly if 
>we are rejecting the covering of Apache's License to them. But I'll just 
>continue to follow their instructions.)
>
> >
> > >Sorry, our lawyer requires me to do this.
> >
> > I am sorry too. We can't have a conversation with a lawyer breathing
> > down our necks.
>
>Agreed.
>
>I'd like to continue this conversation, can we forgive the occasional 
>legalese?
>
>Thanks,
>Mike

-- 
Ceki Gülcü

  The complete log4j manual:  http://qos.ch/log4j/  



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