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From Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Deprecated factory methods replaced by builders.
Date Thu, 08 Sep 2016 03:52:37 GMT
I agree that util packages are out of scope for BC. That's especially true
in log4j-api where everything else has BC concerns.

On 7 September 2016 at 21:14, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:

> I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example
> because the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought
> we had "agreed" on that.
>
> Gary
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's
>> unavoidable. There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking
>> BC.
>>
>> This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general.
>>
>> We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For example,
>> NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better named
>> INSTANCE, but this is one thing I would not change at this stage.
>>
>> One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) mentioned
>> for putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries we would
>> make breaking changes.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain
>>> compatibility with in core.  Basic components like Appenders and their
>>> managers, Filters, Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type would
>>> be at the top of my list.
>>>
>>
>> Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release.
>>>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we should
>>>> not break user code for no good reason.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What does this have to do with 1.2?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think that would be good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning to
>>>>> see increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used surprisingly
>>>>> often. Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default for
the
>>>>> missing parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds like.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
wrot
>>>>>> e:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.
>>>>>>> com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories in this
upcoming
>>>>>>>> release, though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine
>>>>>>>> .com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they are in
the way. We
>>>>>>>>> can remove all of them in Log4j 3.0.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter conversation
with
>>>>>>>>>> maintainers of another Apache project that one of
the reasons they hesitate
>>>>>>>>>> to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we will break
binary compatibility.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because we deprecated
them
>>>>>>>>>> seems a bit harsh.
>>>>>>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort to keep
them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory methods
unless they
>>>>>>>>>> actively prevent us from doing something we want
to do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remko
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting at least
10 years,
>>>>>>>>>> if ever….
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release is enough
as that might
>>>>>>>>>> very well be the next release.  I’d say 2 minor
releases and at least 6
>>>>>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate
the factory,
>>>>>>>>>> you should remove it in the next 2.x release. Otherwise,
deprecation has no
>>>>>>>>>> point if there's no version with the deprecation
specified.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.co
>>>>>>>>>> m> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that are deprecated
by
>>>>>>>>>>> builders?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained
in
>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message
>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a
person), you
>>>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such
case,
>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the
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>>>>>>>>> reply email.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>



-- 
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>

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