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From Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Deprecated factory methods replaced by builders.
Date Thu, 08 Sep 2016 04:22:23 GMT
On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com> wrote:

> Okay.
> Shall we introduce an @Internal annotation?
>

Please no, everything in Core is internal. I think we need to start with
English sentences before we get caught up on details of how to communicate
that to users.

Gary


>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2016/09/08, at 12:52, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I agree that util packages are out of scope for BC. That's especially true
> in log4j-api where everything else has BC concerns.
>
> On 7 September 2016 at 21:14, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example
>> because the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought
>> we had "agreed" on that.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's
>>> unavoidable. There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking
>>> BC.
>>>
>>> This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general.
>>>
>>> We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For example,
>>> NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better named
>>> INSTANCE, but this is one thing I would not change at this stage.
>>>
>>> One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) mentioned
>>> for putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries we would
>>> make breaking changes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain
>>>> compatibility with in core.  Basic components like Appenders and their
>>>> managers, Filters, Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type
would
>>>> be at the top of my list.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release.
>>>>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we should
>>>>> not break user code for no good reason.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What does this have to do with 1.2?
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that would be good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning
to
>>>>>> see increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used surprisingly
>>>>>> often. Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default
for the
>>>>>> missing parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds
>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
wrot
>>>>>>> e:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.
>>>>>>>> com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories in
this
>>>>>>>>> upcoming release, though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal <
>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they are
in the way.
>>>>>>>>>> We can remove all of them in Log4j 3.0.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma <
>>>>>>>>>> remko.popma@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter
conversation with
>>>>>>>>>>> maintainers of another Apache project that one
of the reasons they hesitate
>>>>>>>>>>> to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we will
break binary compatibility.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because we
deprecated them
>>>>>>>>>>> seems a bit harsh.
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort
to keep them.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory methods
unless they
>>>>>>>>>>> actively prevent us from doing something we want
to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Remko
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting
at least 10 years,
>>>>>>>>>>> if ever….
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release is
enough as that might
>>>>>>>>>>> very well be the next release.  I’d say 2 minor
releases and at least 6
>>>>>>>>>>> months.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate
the factory,
>>>>>>>>>>> you should remove it in the next 2.x release.
Otherwise, deprecation has no
>>>>>>>>>>> point if there's no version with the deprecation
specified.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory <
>>>>>>>>>>> garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that are
deprecated by
>>>>>>>>>>>> builders?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  | 
 www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be
contained in
>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message
>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
a person),
>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.
In such case,
>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify
the sender by
>>>>>>>>>> reply email.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>
>


-- 
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory

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