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From Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com>
Subject Re: Serializable Logger
Date Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:06:09 GMT
If that's the case, we should reopen
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-801


On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com> wrote:

> But realistically it may not be easy to spin up a background thread etc on
> deserialization.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2016/07/26, at 20:08, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>
> It seems like this should be the case already:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-801
>
> What about AsyncLogger though?
>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Mikael Ståldal <
> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>
>> That deserialized loggers work (given that all needed dependencies are on
>> classpath) is a reasonable expectation. If we cannot guarantee that,
>> then we should not declare that loggers are serializable.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sure. What is the expectation here?
>>> Do deserialized Loggers work?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 2016/07/26, at 17:26, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can we at least document that we guarantee that Loggers from log4j-impl
>>> are always serializable?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:52 AM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2016/07/26, at 1:43, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The purpose is that the user of Log4j can be sure that the Logger is
>>>> serializable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If that is a consideration, the user can select an implementation that
>>>> is fit for purpose.
>>>>
>>>> I generally prefer not to make too many guarantees in an interface to
>>>> give implementations more flexibility.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But to what purpose? Does Log4j itself need this? Is this a case of
>>>>> YAGNI?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I have a Logger in an object I serialize, and the class
>>>>> implementing Logger is serializable, then I am good to go.
>>>>>
>>>>> Making Logger Serializable, would make this obvious to users and might
>>>>> make some developers warm and fuzzy. It just seems like an odd requirement
>>>>> for ALL implementors of Loggers to be serializable. As a third party
Logger
>>>>> implementor, that does not mean it would be done properly. Implementing
the
>>>>> interface is no guarantee of proper behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> Overall, it seems like it would make Log4j less friendly to 3rd party
>>>>> implementors. Are there even any?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Mikael Ståldal <
>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But maybe we actually want to force all implementations to be
>>>>>> serializable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Remko Popma <remko.popma@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the theory is it is preferable to let implementors of
an
>>>>>>> interface implement java.io.Serializable instead of letting the
interface
>>>>>>> extend java.io.Serializable. That gives future implementors the
freedom to
>>>>>>> choose to either implement Serializable or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:49 AM, Mikael Ståldal <
>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems like serializable logger is useful in Apache Spark,
which
>>>>>>>> is popular to use from Scala.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do Scala programmers use Serializable a lot, or is there
a better
>>>>>>>>> mechanism there? Because if there's a more Scala way
of doing it, that
>>>>>>>>> would make more sense. Otherwise, you can always add
Serializable later,
>>>>>>>>> but you shouldn't remove it once it's part of the public
API.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25 July 2016 at 03:06, Mikael Ståldal <
>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am asking this since I'm considering making the
Scala Logger
>>>>>>>>>> wrapper Serializable. Would that be a good idea?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Mikael Ståldal
<
>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Users can rely on the fact that loggers are always
Serializable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I guess we could also document that fact if we
don't want to
>>>>>>>>>>> mark the interface Serializable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ralph Goers
<
>>>>>>>>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What advantage is gained by declaring the
interface
>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Mikael Ståldal
<
>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should limit ourselves to
what we add to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> API just for the sake of alternative implementations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory
<
>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think you want to _force_ all
implementation to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> serializable. Serialization is not a
main feature of loggers, logging is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Mikael
Ståldal <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But if this is a feature that is
useful for some users, why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not fully advertise it by making
the Logger interface Serializable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 7:53 PM,
Matt Sicker <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's Serializable because there
was a feature request for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. The jira ticket is internal
(reported by Gary), but I recall either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another bug or a mailing list
post where the justification was so that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serializable classes can still
use a Logger instance field (not everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uses a static field for the Logger
for some reason).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21 July 2016 at 11:32, Ralph
Goers <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked myself the same question
and I guess the answer is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that Logger is included in
lots of classes, many of which are Serializable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be easier for us
to make AbstractLogger Serializable then for all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the users to mark it as transient
and have to manually instantiate the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Logger during de-Serialization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 9:29
AM, Mikael Ståldal <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So then why is AbstractLogger,
and our implementation in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j-core, Serializable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:18
PM, Gary Gregory <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgregory@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think there
is a way to know what folks are doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016
at 9:13 AM, Mikael Ståldal <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any providers
not using AbstractLogger?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016
at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgregory@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably to leave
the decision on whether to support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serialization
to each provider.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016
3:14 AM, "Mikael Ståldal" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AbstractLogger
is Serializable, but the Logger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface
is not. Why is it so?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software
developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan
3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged
and/or Confidential Information may be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained
in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible
for delivery of the message to such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person),
you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should
destroy this message and kindly notify the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by
reply email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3
 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or
Confidential Information may be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained in this
message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for
delivery of the message to such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may
not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy
this message and kindly notify the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com
| ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with
Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second
Edition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action
<http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46
Stockholm, Sweden  |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential
Information may be contained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this message. If you are
not the addressee indicated in this message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery
of the message to such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy
or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message
and kindly notify the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm,
Sweden  |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information
may be contained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this message. If you are not the
addressee indicated in this message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the
message to such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver
this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and
kindly notify the sender
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by reply email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second
Edition
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden
 |
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information
may be contained in
>>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee
indicated in this message
>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message
to such a person),
>>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message
to anyone. In such case,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly
notify the sender by
>>>>>>>>>>>> reply email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden
 |   www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may
be contained in
>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message
>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to
such a person),
>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.
In such case,
>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify
the sender by
>>>>>>>>>>> reply email.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  | 
 www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be
contained in
>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message
>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
a person),
>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone.
In such case,
>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify
the sender by
>>>>>>>>>> reply email.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained
in this
>>>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person),
you
>>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender
by
>>>>>>>> reply email.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you
>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>>>>>> email.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>
>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>
>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>>>>
>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>>>> email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>
>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>> Senior software developer
>>>
>>> *Magine TV*
>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>>>
>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>>> email.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: MagineTV]
>>
>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>> Senior software developer
>>
>> *Magine TV*
>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>>
>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>> email.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: MagineTV]
>
> *Mikael Ståldal*
> Senior software developer
>
> *Magine TV*
> mikael.staldal@magine.com
> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>
> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not
> copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
> email.
>
>


-- 
[image: MagineTV]

*Mikael Ståldal*
Senior software developer

*Magine TV*
mikael.staldal@magine.com
Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com

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