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From Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com>
Subject Re: Education
Date Mon, 29 Feb 2016 16:36:21 GMT
I think the idea of having an abstraction API for different logging
implementation is inherently bad. Both commons-logging and SLF4J have
probably created more problems than they have solved.

One reason I like Log4J 2 is that it doesn't claim to be an abstraction
API, and I see it as a way to eventually get out of this mess. It have
plugins (appenders, layouts, etc.) though, and that is good, that's where
the abstraction layer should be. I hope that one day people will stop using
commons-logging / SLF4J and use Log4J 2 directly instead.

So I am one of the people who "think that log4j-api isn't analogous to
slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback", and I like it that way.

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
wrote:

> However, it is important to remember that SLF4J was created before Logback
> and was meant to be a new abstraction API. You can see that right here in
> the archives for this mailing list.
>
> OTOH, Log4j 2’s API was created so that “normal” users would be able to
> know what was safe to code against and what wasn’t.  Log4j 1 had lots of
> problems because users were coding against pretty much all the components
> and expecting them to remain compatible.
>
> In the end, the result is similar. You can use either API and bind with
> another implementation, however binding with the “targeted” backend is
> still more efficient.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api
> where log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess.
>
> On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years
>>> ago either on one of our lists.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long
>>>> time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though
>>>> all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion
>>>> attached to the issue!
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>>>
>>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an
>>>>> API too?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> <ggregory@apache.org>
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: MagineTV]
>>
>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>> Senior software developer
>>
>> *Magine TV*
>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>
>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>> email.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>
>
>


-- 
[image: MagineTV]

*Mikael Ståldal*
Senior software developer

*Magine TV*
mikael.staldal@magine.com
Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com

Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
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you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
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