Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-logging-log4j-dev-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-logging-log4j-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 19EFF1810C for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:40:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 49019 invoked by uid 500); 17 Aug 2015 08:40:48 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-logging-log4j-dev-archive@logging.apache.org Received: (qmail 48976 invoked by uid 500); 17 Aug 2015 08:40:48 -0000 Mailing-List: contact log4j-dev-help@logging.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: List-Help: List-Post: List-Id: "Log4J Developers List" Reply-To: "Log4J Developers List" Delivered-To: mailing list log4j-dev@logging.apache.org Received: (qmail 48965 invoked by uid 99); 17 Aug 2015 08:40:48 -0000 Received: from Unknown (HELO spamd2-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:40:48 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd2-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd2-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 92F7D1AA329 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:40:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd2-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.001 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.001 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Received: from mx1-us-west.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd2-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.9]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zOONgJ10-LvV for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:40:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-io0-f180.google.com (mail-io0-f180.google.com [209.85.223.180]) by mx1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 81AFB210C9 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:40:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iodt126 with SMTP id t126so143882416iod.2 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 01:40:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=23DedO5nmqjaWIZoNOBTgNqRV8amS/CYTguwIV7m9rI=; b=M2pQKtnKg3fKE2PgSmdYpjHQc6z3E7DDwJGxwkdGTbzl0lJTT1TvQS4eQct6qNes4e otNGqL3zjhTGJJD1PUQ0K/tprEGINhSQBeHxeaMq+kMaFUjV62wHlTAunV2JQGx7PNsA z1jWObm/RRJkT4HriSVlJ/iTBxooD89Oo2+9KbkYR5NQmL++wfqrvYBCYlfEuzLWvFzd DPYvCNQja9rFW/Va6CTR3VwDrxD7ylG8LaalFdQJIsX1NZrwfibYyMgnXxRDKZe61Zkm lGttRJFGNTlLRbqvCIGcbtcflSgODonWvIn9HqwgQdhtrQTqXJ7mIIJwTBbDfveoNB8x kszg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlZvHJ2quiCIB2PHDdlbgf4P+9ZL1ejf8umuu90K9iFCaQHOuK8PNPjOS9M5UN0CpBWcnxf MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.169.215 with SMTP id f84mr329881ioj.42.1439800831799; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 01:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.82.226 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 01:40:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <90762383-9443-46B9-A504-C26DA963B05D@dslextreme.com> References: <90762383-9443-46B9-A504-C26DA963B05D@dslextreme.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:40:31 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Version 2 outreach? From: =?UTF-8?Q?Mikael_St=C3=A5ldal?= To: Log4J Developers List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1142667c2091b2051d7dc1e7 --001a1142667c2091b2051d7dc1e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's OK if a library uses SLF4J properly. However, some libraries (even Apache ones) uses SLF4J improperly by having a mandatory dependency on a specific implementation (logj4 1 or logback) in their project. Such as Zookeeper: https://repo1.maven.org/maven2/org/apache/zookeeper/zookeeper/3.4.6/zookeep= er-3.4.6.pom This is very unfortunately since Zookeeper is a dependency for quite a lot of other projects, and causes quite a lot of headache if you want to use Log4j 2 (you have to exclude dependencies). There is an old JIRA ticket for it, but it has not been prioritized: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ZOOKEEPER-1371 On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 2:27 AM, Ralph Goers wrote: > Gary, > > Do you have something in mind? While not hard, it is a fair amount of > work for an application to switch to a different logging API. Granted, it > is mostly just changing the call to get a Logger. But most applications > should also take advantage of the new parameter syntax as well. > > What was your experience with projects upgrading to commons lang3 vs > commons lang? I know quite a few people are still using commons httpclie= nt > vs the new version, and that has been around a lot longer than Log4j 2. > What I really hope is that we stopped projects from switching from log4j = 1 > to logback, although I am aware that many projects are using slf4j instea= d > and letting their customers choose. Frankly, if I hadn=E2=80=99t found l= imitations > (such as the ability to use Messages) in SLF4J I would have used that as > the API for Log4j 2 (I am quite happy we didn=E2=80=99t). > > Ralph > > On Aug 14, 2015, at 2:34 PM, Gary Gregory wrote: > > Something to think about after we get 2.4 out the door... > > Do you think it appropriate for us to do some kind of outreach to other > Apache projects and say "hey, about about use log4j 2?" > > Gary > > -- > E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > > JUnit in Action, Second Edition > Spring Batch in Action > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > > > --=20 [image: MagineTV] *Mikael St=C3=A5ldal* Senior backend developer *Magine TV* mikael.staldal@magine.com Regeringsgatan 25 | 111 53 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. --001a1142667c2091b2051d7dc1e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's OK if a library uses SLF4J properly. However, som= e libraries (even Apache ones) uses SLF4J improperly by having a mandatory = dependency on a specific implementation (logj4 1 or logback) in their proje= ct. Such as Zookeeper:


This is very unfortunately since Zoo= keeper is a dependency for quite a lot of other projects, and causes quite = a lot of headache if you want to use Log4j 2 (you have to exclude dependenc= ies). There is an old JIRA ticket for it, but it has not been prioritized:= =C2=A0http= s://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ZOOKEEPER-1371

On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 a= t 2:27 AM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>= wrote:
Gary,

Do you have something in mind?=C2=A0= While not hard, it is a fair amount of work for an application to switch t= o a different logging API. Granted, it is mostly just changing the call to = get a Logger. But most applications should also take advantage of the new p= arameter syntax as well.

What was your experience = with projects upgrading to commons lang3 vs commons lang?=C2=A0 I know quit= e a few people are still using commons httpclient vs the new version, and t= hat has been around a lot longer than Log4j 2.=C2=A0 What I really hope is = that we stopped projects from switching from log4j 1 to logback, although I= am aware that many projects are using slf4j instead and letting their cust= omers choose.=C2=A0 Frankly, if I hadn=E2=80=99t found limitations (such as= the ability to use Messages) in SLF4J I would have used that as the API fo= r Log4j 2 (I am quite happy we didn=E2=80=99t).

Ralph
=

On Aug 14, 2015, = at 2:34 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com> wrote:

Something to think about after we get 2.4 out the door...

=
Do you think it appropriate for us to do some kind of outreach t= o other Apache projects and say "hey, about about use log4j 2?"





--
<= div style=3D"margin:0px;font-size:12px">3D"MagineTV"

Mikael St=C3=A5ldal
Senior backend developer

Magine TV
mikael.s= taldal@magine.com=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
Regeringsgatan 25 =C2=A0|=C2=A0111 53 Stockholm, Sweden =C2=A0| =C2=A0 www.magine.com

Privilege= d and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If=20 you are not the addressee indicated in this message
(or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,=C2=A0
you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply ema= il. =C2=A0=C2=A0
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