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From Jim Moore <lo...@mooresoft.net>
Subject Re: Discussion topic: too many places development is being done?
Date Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:14:42 GMT
While I agree with Matt about not tying people's hands, one of the core
values of Apache is the transparency of communication.  Part of that
transparency is that there is -- at the very least -- a publicly accessible
record of what is discussed.  Mediums like email, wiki and blogs are
automatically archived and available, but things like irc, phone
conferencing, and the like are not.  As long as "minutes" are taken and
publicly distributed/archived, then it doesn't necessarily break the spirit
of communication in the Apache community.

I also agree with Jim in that it is a real pain to try to track all these
various sources of information.  What we really need is some way of
aggregating them all into one place -- maybe RSS/RDF/Atom?  I've seen a
number of projects working to expose CVS commits, emails, wikis, and more
into feeds, but not all of them are ready for prime-time and haven't seen
any real initiative at Apache to actually install/use them to help manage
the information.

Now if we could just convince a VP in the Apache Software Foundation
([cough] Ceki [cough]) to champion such an idea...  :-)

-Jim Moore


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Munz" <mmunz@apelon.com>
To: "Log4J Developers List" <log4j-dev@logging.apache.org>;
<log4j-dev@logging.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: Discussion topic: too many places development is being done?


>I think there should be one central place where
>development discussions are done...

OK.  Who's game to try merging the functionality of email, bugzilla, wiki,
and irc?  Piece-of-cake, eh? ;)  In future versions... Version 2.0: phone
conferencing, version 3.0: teleconference, version 4.0: telepathy.

Seriously, though, some OSS project in this vein is probably wanting, if it
doesn't already exist.

>...and that's the
>dev@ lists. I think it's counterproductive to
>have stuff spring up on dev@, fully formed, after
>discussion elsewhere...

As long as there are freely-available communication channels better than
email for certain types of communication, then some people are going to go
around dev@ in those cases.  Tying people's hands with some sort of
use-email-only rule is likely to be counter-productive at best.

- Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:ceki@qos.ch]
Sent: Fri 6/25/2004 11:53 AM
To: log4j-dev@logging.apache.org
Cc:
Subject: Fwd: Discussion topic: too many places development is being  done?

I found this comment interesting.

>From: Jim Jagielski <jim@jaguNET.com>
>Subject: Discussion topic: too many places development is being done?
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:43:42 -0400
>
>This isn't really a rant or anything, but it seems to me
>that it is becoming increasingly difficult to follow
>development of projects simply because many people are
>using "alternate" method to discuss development issues.
>It used to be you could follow dev@whatever.apache.org
>and be up to date and follow all the development
>discussion. Now it's "we were talking on irc and
>think that..." or "check the Wiki for our discussion
>about this patch" or "Oh, all that was discussed in
>Bugzilla" or in blogs or wherever.
>
>I think there should be one central place where
>development discussions are done, and that's the
>dev@ lists. I think it's counterproductive to
>have stuff spring up on dev@, fully formed, after
>discussion elsewhere...

-- 
Ceki Gülcü

      For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual"
      ISBN: 2970036908 http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp

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