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From Ceki Gülcü <c...@qos.ch>
Subject Re: Donations link
Date Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:13:52 GMT

This whole donations crap is really not worth the trouble. I actually
regret I brought it up especially after the discussion held on the
fundraising@ list.

It is not like log4j every user would donate something. I expect less
than one in every 10'000 log4j users per year to make a
donation. Assuming donations of 20 USD, it amounts to less than 2'000
US dollars per year of which 30% go to the ASF.

Let see. With the remaining 1'400 dollars, I intend buy out Microsoft
in an offensive bid, help the world's poor and give the rest to Mark
so he can buy IBM and save the rest of the world.

BTW, the 1 in 10'000 is probably quite an accurate estimate.

More comments below.

At 09:21 AM 7/24/2003 +1000, Oliver Burn wrote:
>This is a tough issue, with no obvious answer. I had thought about doing
>something similar for the Checkstyle project I work on.
>As I see it, the major problem if you collect donations, is to determine
>how the money should be divided up among the people who commit to
>Log4J. I am assuming that you are not planning to keep all the money for
>yourself, as this would be unfair to people like Mark, who also
>contribute a lot of time/effort.
>So, assuming you are planning to divide up the money, how would you plan
>to do this? This has the potential to open up a Pandora's box of
>issues. Much in the same way there are issues in paying bonuses to
>programmers in the work environment. It also has the potential to kill
>off people being willing to contribute to Log4J. Look at the issues that
>surround JBoss.

I wouldn't write off JBoss just yet. The rumors of its demise are
vastly exaggerated imho.

Any long term effort for serious development requires monetary
resources. One way to secure those funds is to have a big corporation
pay the salary of the developers. Another possibility is to have the
developers do for-pay consulting work, a la JBoss.

I don't know fully understand the MySql model.

>Personally, with the Checkstyle project I decided that it was far easier
>to avoid these problems and not collect donations. I work on Checkstyle
>for personal enjoyment, plus for professional gain through experience
>Just my $0.02,
> > It appears that the non-profit status of the ASF does precludes such
> > links. A non-profit organization is not allowed to act as a front
> > for a for profit organization.
> >
> > Good to know.
> >
> > At 04:32 PM 7/23/2003 +0200, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>I would like to set up a donations link on the log4j pages similar to
> >>the Jave project (http://www.jave.de/).  The donations will be
> >>collected by QOS.ch (my company). Thirty percent (30%) of the
> >>proceedings will be transferred to the Apache Software Foundation in
> >>order to pay for our infrastructure, legal expenses and shore up
> >>reserves. The rest (70%) will be used to cover up the expenses of log4j
> >>development.
> >>
> >>What do you think? Is everyone comfortable with this idea?
> >>
> >>Let me add that the amounts involved are not very big. I really do not
> >>expect donations to exceed $2K per year.
> >>
> >>I have not yet asked the ASF board for their approval. I wanted to test
> >>the waters here first.
> >
> > --
> > Ceki  For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual"
> >       ISBN: 2970036908  http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: log4j-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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Ceki  For log4j documentation consider "The complete log4j manual"
       ISBN: 2970036908  http://www.qos.ch/shop/products/clm_t.jsp 

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