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From Lutz Michael <michael.h.l...@siemens.com>
Subject RE: What to do about commons-logging (if anything)
Date Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:26:08 GMT


>> And from the client point of view, lowest-common-denominator is usually
just fine.

Then why do we need so many solutions?  Why not focus all resources on one
kick-butt solution?

I suspect the lack of focus on different logging solutions will tend to make
each one mediocre.

I'm a fan of the KISS principle, and I'd love to see (from a user's
perspective) one top-notch solution as opposed to numerous options, none of
which are as strong as they could be if everyone joined forces.

>From a resource allocation perspective, I think we're hurting ourselves with
many solutions, I'd rather see a standard  implementation endorsed by all.




-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Womack [mailto:mwomack@bevocal.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:00 PM
To: 'Log4J Developers List'
Subject: RE: What to do about commons-logging (if anything)


> I actually share your opinion to a large degree, and cringe as well
> under the same circumstances.
> 
> I think we (the Apache community) would gain from:
> - Establishing log4j as the standard logging component
> - Using log4j directly, i.e. bundling it with tomcat, struts, whatever
> - Eliminating commons-logging

As much as I agree that log4j should be standardized on, with the existence
of at least the jdk 1.4 logging package, I think it is unrealistic to expect
all the jakarta projects to standardize.  People want choices.  They don't
want to be locked into any one package.  They will accept being locked into
commons-logging, but only because they can configure it after the fact to
use a different backend package.  And from the client point of view,
lowest-common-denominator is usually just fine.  Even from the log4j
perspective, much of the power is in how the backend (appenders, loggers,
etc) is configured; not in the creation of the logger and the reporting of
the messages.

What I don't understand is why commons-logging has to be so complicated.
What is it with all that class loading stuff?

I think we should document the various problems/issues that people are
running into, especially in regards to log4j, and bring that list to the
commons developers for resolution.  If they are going to take on creating a
package like commons-logging, then there is some responsibility that goes
with it.  Care to start the list on wiki?

-Mark

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