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From Stefan Bodewig <bode...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Bylaw changes
Date Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:51:30 GMT
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Curt Arnold <carnold@apache.org> wrote:

> For example, if log4cxx needed some additional testers to pass a
> vote to raise a release to the PMC for review, the vote of a
> motivated PMC member from another sub-project should be considered
> of some merit.

This sounds like a serious misconception of the PMC's and the
committer's responsibilites.

The PMC is responsible for all releases, so the PMC members and only
the PMC members have binding votes.  It shouldn't matter whether a PMC
member is active on any codebase, the vote of that member not only
"has some merit", it is binding.  Votes of non-PMC members are
advisory at best.

That's why many people will tell you that all committers should be PMC

> The "proposal" indicates that it is a working draft, but there
> appears to have been no work on it in over two years.  I've posted a
> message on general@jakarta.apache.org
> (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-
> general&m=112020092726359&w=2) about the status of proposal, though
> there has not been any response yet.

I think it is seriously out of date anyway.

In Jakarta we've made sure that every subproject has at least three
PMC members by growing the PMC.  That way we've ensured the quorum and
no "alien" PMC member is needed to make a release.  Honestly, there
are some subprojects who are not represented, mainly for lack of
committers (ORO and regexp for example), and in those cases some PMC
members have "helped out" in the past.  But if a subproject doesn't
manage to find three PMC members for a longer stretch of time, it is
in serious trouble anyway.

>> After rereading the bylaws so many times, I see that bylaws
>> discussions could be held on general@logging.apache.org.  I'll
>> leave it to Mark's discretion to forward this message to
>> general@logging.apache.org and move any discussion there.

A general ASF policy is that most discussion should be on public lists
- all discussion in the case of development decisions.  Private lists
should only ever by used for things that need to be private - like
security issues or discussions on people.


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