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From Andreas Hartmann <andr...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Lenya -- questions and observations
Date Mon, 26 May 2003 16:58:39 GMT
Hi Marc,

Marc wrote:

[...]

> What is Lenya meant to do?
> 
>  However, is that really so or is it more of an CMS
>  construction framework?

I - personally - see Lenya as a flexible CMS framework that comes
with some example / showcase publications (websites). It provides
some basic structure and functionality that is shared by all
publications, but gives the opportunity to configure and extend
almost everything.

- If you want an out-of-the-box CMS, take an exsisting publication
   and just replace content and presentation.

- If you want to create your own Cocoon-based CMS, you can certainly
   re-use some features of Lenya.

But IMHO the real power is somewhere in between - build your site
using the Lenya site structure and CMS components and expand it
as far as you want.

>  What are its specific strengths that
>  distinguish it from the literally hundreds of competitors on the CMS
>  market?

In my eyes:
- flexibility - no limitations for URI space, document types, ...
- browser-based WYSIWG XML editing
- presentation requires only XSLT / HTML / CSS knowledge
- clear data storage (file system usually similar to URI space)
- "you know what you do"
   OK, that's my point of view as a Cocoon user :)

>  As far as the presentation on Lenya's start page is concerned, the
>  implementation details are from a user's perspective far less
>  important than the functionality the tool offers -- and the second
>  paragraph which supposedly answers the functionality question, is far
>  too technical in nature to be very useful. Unfortunately, I'm not yet
>  involved enough with Lenya to suggest a replacement text.

OK, this is a good hint - we have to work on this. Thanks!

>  I can comment on the documentation separately, if desired.

We would greatly appreciate this, but don't hurry - we have
enough work for months :)

> Reference implementations?
> 
>  Of course, I'm highly interested to hear about reference
>  implementations. Under Demo -> Apache Lenya Introduction (BTW, why is
>  this important page not linked from documentation?

The docs are very under construction, this is an item on the list.

>  And its online
>  version doesn't work right now) I read about the NZZ and also about
>  Computerworld, Forum, Oscom and Unipublic. Are all of these also
>  reference implementations or just examples?

NZZ, Computerworld, OSCOM and Unipublic are real websites that
are authored using Lenya or its predecessor XPS, respectively.

> Database support?
> 
>  The CVS version seems to rely exclusively on filesystem based data
>  storage. It is possible to use Lenya-managed database-based storage?

We haven't implemented db-based storage and probably won't do this.
But it is planned to integrate Slide as a repository layer.

> Demo applications in the CVS version?
> 
>  None of the demo publications works out of the box.

There must be something wrong with your configuration.
What problems are you running into?

> It is necessary
>  to copy around DTDs, entity files etc. into the given directories to
>  stop Cocoon from throwing FileNotFound-Exceptions in their various
>  forms. Are there plans to move towards a catalog-based handling of
>  DTDs?

This is strange, that should work. At the moment, the only entity
catalog is in the docs-new publication, but we're thinking of a
solution to allow multiple catalogs. You shouldn't have to move
any files. Could you describe your problem in more detail?

>  Some files such as xopus2-xhtml.xsl don't exist at all.

Strange. Does anyone know this issue?

> So much for today -- sorry for writing a first mail to the Lenya list that
> seems so negative and is so long. However, it's indeed crucial what you
> write yourself in the preamble -- "we made two crucial mistakes: Bad
> Documentation and a bad installer. We hopefully do a better job this
> time."

Thank you very much for your mail.
We certainly need such comments, but what we need even more are
people that help us solving the problems :) I hope that answering
mails can motivate people to participate.

You seem to be very familiar with the technologies that we use.
Could you imagine to become a member the Lenya community?
A great starting point would be the entity catalog issue :)

BTW, you'll find a list of recently implemented and planned features
at http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/project/roadmap.html.

Andreas



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