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From Leo Simons <>
Subject Re: [report]
Date Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:48:44 GMT
On Mar 14, 2007, at 8:02 AM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On 3/13/07, Stefano Mazzocchi <> wrote:
>> Right.
>> Labs has a charter, which was approved by the board and we are  
>> sticking
>> to it. In that charter, we explicitly mention that we welcome efforts
>> from all over the foundation, including things that were previously
>> hosted inside other projects, sandboxes or otherwise.
>> Nothing has changed since than.
> Well, that's honestly still a bit confusing.


> To be a bit more concrete (names removed to protect the innocent - if
> they wish to reveal their cloaks, they can), in httpd-land, a number
> of developers raised the concern that a committer should no longer be
> allowed to create a sandbox within the HTTP Server PMC because that's
> now the charter of the Labs.

If HTTPD doesn't want any sandboxes within their scope, that's their  
decision, but Apache Labs' existence should not really be a factor I  
think, and labs is certainly not going to tell HTTPD they cannot have  
as many sandboxes as they want or that they cannot have stuff in there.

If I were the HTTP Server PMC, I would not be sharing the concern  
that was raised.

>   The original committer was intending to
> start on a new version of httpd and wanted to try out some ideas and
> get feedback from dev@httpd

Seems like a cool thing to me to want to do, but that's for httpd to  

> - but, these individuals mentioned that
> they felt that such a proposal ought to be governed by the Labs PMC
> *not* by the HTTP Server PMC.  (I believe in the end, the sandbox was
> created within the httpd PMC SVN space.)

If a committer comes to the apache labs wanting to do a http server  
experiment, and complies with labs guidelines, I think its likely to  
be accepted. If that lab then starts off with a big `svn cp` of  
apache2 (or something like that), for sure there'll be eyebrows  
raised over here. I know I'd probably suggest to go work with the  
HTTP Server people directly instead.

> Hence, my question to the Labs PMC: is the above characterization in
> agreement with your interpretation of the Labs charter?

No. The fact that the Labs PMC exists now doesn't mean that the HTTP  
Server PMC suddenly can't do whatever it pleases (within its scope of  
course). Even if it were somehow the case that HTTP Server PMC  
sandboxes would be considered a "bad thing", it would not be a  
concern of the Labs PMC to slap the HTTP Server PMC for crossing its  
charter boundary, that would probably be a board@ concern.

The Labs PMC is not a "sandbox police".

> Your statement sounds like that's indeed the case - well, kinda  
> sorta at least.


You know, I'm a bit surprised that the question comes to the Labs PMC  
at all - any policy like "no PMCs can have sandboxes and they must  
all put those kinds of things into apache labs now" (which I would  
definitely oppose if it was ever proposed) would surely come from the  
board@, wouldn't it?

- Leo

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