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From Jean-Baptiste Onofré ...@nanthrax.net>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Launching the kloud initiative
Date Wed, 13 Feb 2019 08:06:14 GMT
Good point Serge.

The huge advantage of Karaf is our "polymorphic" approach: we can
address lot of different packaging, use cases, etc.

So, update is a key thing as well (more for dynamic approach than static
I think).

I forgot to mention one area where we would need help: spread the word
and advertising. With the kloud initiative, I think we can seduce more
users, but they have to find Karaf and what they can do with it and how
Karaf can help them.

I created new Jira yesterday evening, and now I'm starting from PoC that
you will be able to see as PRs soon.

Thanks for your enthusiasm and your interest in Karaf !

Let's build the "new" Karaf ;)


On 13/02/2019 08:29, Serge Huber wrote:
> +1
> I really like this project, but I think we should also be careful to
> really leverage Karaf's strengths compared to other frameworks (such
> as Spring or others).
> I have a millions things that come to mind, how to address :
> - upgrades
> - rolling upgrades
> - leveraging Karaf to avoid building lots of containers and use
> instead OSGi to reduce the memory / CPU footprint
> - configuration of containers (passed as env or even centralized ?)
> There are also some very interesting developments coming to the JDK
> (in JDK 12) such as Project Loom that could help scale Karaf to
> millions of network connections on single instances without the need
> for NIO.
> We were talking in another thread about having a very thin OS-layer on
> top of Karaf to have baremetal performance and I think this could be
> very interesting in a cloud setup as well.
> Anyway, I'm just throwing ideas here, hope you don't mind :)
> cheers,
>   Serge
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 2:11 PM David Daniel
> <david.daniel.1979@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thank you,
>>   I would also be curious if it is possible to work to align some features
>> changes to be compatible with the osgi feature spec.
>> https://github.com/osgi/design/blob/master/rfps/rfp-0188-Features.pdf  It
>> might be possible to bridge some of the gap between bnd and karaf.  I love
>> things about both frameworks and would be super excited if they could work
>> together.
>> David
>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 7:01 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net>
>> wrote:
>>> Thanks for your feedback David, nice idea about jlink, I have to
>>> investigate a little about it, but definitely interesting.
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>> On 11/02/2019 12:52, David Daniel wrote:
>>>> I really like the idea of the static build and features in code.  I think
>>>> the jdk is making great strides in getting java running well on docker
>>>> java 9 jlink for small images that can be copied and spun up quickly
>>>> java 10 defaults improvements https://aboullaite.me/docker-java-10/
>>>> portola for running java on musl (alpine without glibc)
>>>> https://openjdk.java.net/projects/portola/
>>>> loom is coming for not spinning off a ton of threads
>>>> If at all possible I would love to be able to build a minimal karaf
>>>> distribution with jlink from java module files that were generated from
>>> the
>>>> karaf resolver.  I think this might be a little much though and don't
>>> even
>>>> know if it is possible.  Just something that might be able to be looked
>>> at
>>>> while the code is being written.
>>>> David
>>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 1:57 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>> As we now have released Karaf runtime 4.2.3 and started 4.3.x, I think
>>>>> it's time to discuss and move forward "concretely" about the "kloud"
>>>>> (Karaf for the Cloud) initiative.
>>>>> I think the first approach is focused on the developers and devops. I
>>>>> created the following Jira:
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-5923
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6148
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6149
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6150
>>>>> The idea is really to simplify the features generation and distribution
>>>>> packaging.
>>>>> For the features generation, I'm thinking on annotations directly in
>>>>> code (in package-info.java for instance) describing the features needed
>>>>> by the application. The annotations scanner could then create the
>>>>> features XML using the code itself and the annotations. That would allow
>>>>> us to not relay on Maven and be able to support CLI/Gradle/Maven. In
>>>>> case where the user uses Maven, we could better leverage Maven to get
>>>>> some details. The idea is to especially easily create features XML to
>>>>> build "static" runtime (that make sense for the cloud).
>>>>> After the features XML generation, we should have a easier way to build
>>>>> a distribution. We also have to provide multiple "packaging output" like
>>>>> archives (zip/tar.gz), uber jar (embedding karaf and user application),
>>>>> docker image, openimage, kubernetes meta, ...
>>>>> The idea is to have a ready to go packaging for the cloud.
>>>>> For the cloud perspective, the distribution should be
>>>>> "immutable/static". Currently, the resolver we have is great for
>>>>> "dynamic" deployment but could be painful for static one (dealing with
>>>>> refresh, multiple versions resolution, etc).
>>>>> I'm proposing to create kind of "static" resolver
>>>>> (https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6147) directly taking boot
>>>>> features and installing straight forward what's defined in the features.
>>>>> It should result with a more "predictable" behavior, really helpful from
>>>>> a cloud perspective.
>>>>> Finally, I created some Jira about general improvements for the cloud
>>>>> and docker:
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6111
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-4609
>>>>> I think you got the overall idea: dramatically simplify creation of
>>>>> distribution packaging karaf with user application (for developer),
>>>>> simplify the packaging outputs and bootstrapping on cloud (for devops).
>>>>> If you think it could be helpful to have a doc on confluence about that,
>>>>> please let me know I will create it.
>>>>> We all know that Karaf is an amazing runtime. To convince more and more
>>>>> users and give a new dimension to Karaf, I really think that the "kloud
>>>>> initiative" is a must have. We will have a runtime that can address both
>>>>> static and dynamic bootstrapping approach, one runtime for multiple
>>>>> services or one runtime per service, etc.
>>>>> Thoughts ?
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> JB
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>> --
>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com

Jean-Baptiste Onofré
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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