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From Andrei Pozolotin <andrei.pozolo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: release by subsystem
Date Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:16:25 GMT
Guillaume

what you say sounds like
""3.x is dead on arrival, and Red Hat will support only 2.x development".

can you please make some kind of "official" statement?

I do not care either way, just want to know where to focus efforts.

Andrei

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: release by subsystem
From: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com>
To: Andrei Pozolotin <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com>
Cc: "Jamie G." <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
<dev@karaf.apache.org>
Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 08:43:12 PM CDT
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Andrei Pozolotin
> <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com <mailto:andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Guillaume:
>
>     no, snapshots are no good.
>
>     explanation:
>
>     we were trying to run in semi-production mode on karaf
>     3.0.0-SNAPSHOT for last 6 month or so.
>
>     problematic patterns:
>
>     1) some snapshots are good, some are really bad - karaf not even start
>     2) daily snapshot pull is too much toll on developers - waste of time
>     3) there is no easy way to go back to find out what/where was good
>     / revert to last known good.
>
>
> That's the problem with automated builds.  Having automated monthly
> RCs would not help in any way.
> What you're looking for is stability, not automated builds.
>  
>
>
>     issue at hand:
>
>     this used to work some 3 months back, but broken now:
>     https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-2180
>
>     now you will cut RC1, with this bug baked in,
>     and then I have to wait for next 2 years to get RC2 :-)
>     I do not mind the bug, I mind 2 year wait / lack of periodic RC
>     freeze.
>
>     example from another project:
>     netty is not afraid to release 8 alphas and 2 betas in 6 month
>     http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cnetty
>
>     I am not asking you to be an Oracle and release java every day,
>     but can you please be Google with their monthly chrome releases? :-)
>
>
> The real problem with 3.x is lack of focus from the community, nothing
> else.  It's not a technical problem: trying to do more releases won't
> help, as the problem is really to focus on those releases.
> And again, this stability / release problem is not really present on
> 2.x branches.  
> Btw, what features in 3.x were important to you so that you choose to
> use this version instead of 2.x ? One possibility may be to backport
> those to 2.4.x branch ...
>  
>
>
>     cheers,
>
>     Andrei.
>
>
>     -------- Original Message --------
>     Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>     From: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com> <mailto:gnodet@gmail.com>
>     To: Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>
>     Cc: Andrei Pozolotin <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com>, "dev@karaf.apache.org"
>     <mailto:dev@karaf.apache.org> <dev@karaf.apache.org>
>     <mailto:dev@karaf.apache.org>
>     Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:33:49 PM CDT
>>     I actually fail to see what you're looking for Andrei.  We have
>>     nightly builds already.  Aren't those sufficient ?
>>
>>
>>     On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM, Jamie G.
>>     <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com <mailto:jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         RC's are a tagged and signed entity that are released from
>>         Apache -
>>         that requires a vote. The nightly snapshot builds are
>>         available for
>>         integration purposes in the mean time.
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>         Jamie
>>
>>         On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>         <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>         > Jamie:
>>         >
>>         > cant you make a case that RC is not really a release?
>>         >
>>         > Andrei
>>         >
>>         > -------- Original Message --------
>>         > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>         > From: Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>>
>>         > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <mailto:dev@karaf.apache.org>
>>         > Cc: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:gnodet@gmail.com>>
>>         > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 07:24:53 PM CDT
>>         >
>>         > Sorry for jumping in here,
>>         >
>>         > Apache builds require approval before release:
>>         > http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html#approving-a-release
>>         >
>>         > As to release schedule, that's purely at the discretion of the
>>         > community to my best understanding.
>>         >
>>         > Cheers,
>>         > Jamie
>>         >
>>         > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Andrei Pozolotin
>>         > <andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>         >
>>         > Guillaume:
>>         >
>>         > how about automatic, once a month, karaf RC-XXX release,
>>         w/o vote?
>>         >
>>         > Andrei.
>>         >
>>         > -------- Original Message --------
>>         > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>         > From: Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:gnodet@gmail.com>>
>>         > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <mailto:dev@karaf.apache.org>
>>         <dev@karaf.apache.org <mailto:dev@karaf.apache.org>>
>>         > Date: Tue 12 Mar 2013 06:24:24 PM CDT
>>         >
>>         > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Andrei Pozolotin <
>>         > andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com
>>         <mailto:andrei.pozolotin@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>         >
>>         >     *Jean-Baptiste, Łukasz**
>>         >     *
>>         >     FYI:
>>         >
>>         >     1) I released a jenkins plugin which allows incremental
>>         cascaded
>>         >     releases from any level of dependency tree:
>>         >
>>         >
>>         https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Cascade+Release+Plugin
>>         >
>>         > Thx for the heads up.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >     2) I hope you can switch away from monolithic releases
>>         and release
>>         >     karaf modules/subsystems on demand and often.
>>         >
>>         > Releasing karaf is fairly easy, and we rarely are waiting
>>         for third party
>>         > dependencies.
>>         > When that happens, it's mostly because we have bugs waiting
>>         to be fixed.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >     3) IIRC,  the first time "3.0.0.RC1 will come out in 2
>>         weeks"  was
>>         >     promised on this mailing list about 2 years back :-)
>>         >
>>         > And this has nothing to do with the release process.
>>          Technically speaking,
>>         > trunk or branches are mostly always in a releasable state.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >     Thank you,
>>         >
>>         >     Andrei
>>         >
>>         > -------- Original Message --------
>>         > Subject: Re: release by subsystem
>>         > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net
>>         <mailto:jb@nanthrax.net>>
>>         > To: dev@karaf.apache.org <mailto:dev@karaf.apache.org>
>>         > Date: Thu 07 Feb 2013 02:26:10 PM CST
>>         >
>>         > Hi Andrei,
>>         >
>>         > I understand your point.
>>         >
>>         > Some parts are really tight together. However, that's the
>>         purpose of
>>         > the minimal distribution and framework:
>>         >
>>         > - framework should provide the most minimal Karaf container
>>         (however,
>>         > it embeds Aries Blueprint for instance, as Karaf bundles
>>         use it)
>>         > - minimal is a very lightweight Karaf container, the
>>         purpose is to let
>>         > the user create a custom distribution on top of that.
>>         >
>>         > I'm listening all proposals to improve these distributions !
>>         >
>>         > Regards
>>         > JB
>>         >
>>         > On 02/07/2013 05:30 PM, Andrei Pozolotin wrote:
>>         >
>>         >      *Jean-Baptiste*
>>         >
>>         >      I am curious if you envision to change karaf layout so
>>         release by
>>         >      subsystem is possible.
>>         >
>>         >      For example, if I use minimal sub set of karaf, which
>>         does not need
>>         >      Aries, why should I wait for it?
>>         >
>>         >      this is similar to how ops4j was partitioned way back,
>>         so there are
>>         >      no monolithic Godzilla releases any more.
>>         >
>>         >      Thank you,
>>         >
>>         >      Andrei
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     ------------------------
>>     Guillaume Nodet
>>     ------------------------
>>     Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>>
>>     Email: gnodet@redhat.com <mailto:gnodet@redhat.com>
>>     Web: http://fusesource.com <http://fusesource.com/>
>>     Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Red Hat, Open Source Integration
>
> Email: gnodet@redhat.com <mailto:gnodet@redhat.com>
> Web: http://fusesource.com <http://fusesource.com/>
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>


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