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From Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Apache Karaf 2.3.0 very close
Date Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:30:30 GMT

On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:06 AM, Charles Moulliard <ch007m@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is it required to deliver Karaf 2.3.0 now or could we postpone it a few
> days till we provide Spring 3.1 ?

I don't think Spring 3.1 upgrade is a "few days" thing.   And if you go down that route, why
don't we update to Jetty 8.1 which would bring in Servlet 3 support (which CXF could leverage).
  Jetty 8 has been out for a long time as well.    And if we do that, we could update………

It's a never ending thing.   At this point, we have been testing all the various projects
with Karaf 2.3 running with Spring 3.0.7, Jetty 7.6.x, etc….   We know things are fairly
stable with that.   If we keep trying to push things forward, we'll never get it out, or if
we do, we won't have the same level of testing and confidence.   I know CXF has not been extensively
(or at all) tested with Spring 3.1.   CXF uses spring a LOT more heavily than Camel and we
HAVE run into issues with the various Spring upgrades in the past.   I don't have a lot of
confidence with it, and since CXF was just released (artifacts promoted this morning), it
would be several weeks at least before we would normally get any fixes that may be needed
for CXF to work with Spring 3.1.   From a CXF standpoint, I'm actually MORE confident in a
Jetty 8.1 upgrade than I am a Spring 3.1 upgrade as CXF does test with Jetty 8.1 now.

I would suggest:

1) Get 2.3 out ASAP using what we have been testing it with.   It's WAY WAY WAY overdue at
this point.

2) Start a process of timed releases like CXF (and to a lesser extent Camel).   Timed releases
avoid a lot of the feature creep.   If it's there in time, great.  If not, there is always
next release.   2.4 could just be 3 months away with Sping 3.1 (or 3.2), Jetty 8.1, etc…
   Of course, get a wiki page up that shows this roadmap so the other projects that use Karaf
heavily can plan accordingly and start testing.



Dan





> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> My understanding that the spring31 feature would be an optional part
>> of Karaf 2.3.
>> 
>> As to Karaf 2.4 - other than spring 3.1 i think we need to start a
>> separate thread to discuss that particular branch's major changes.
>> Please note, we've added a 2.4.0 version to Jira so that issues for
>> that future release can be recorded.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Jamie
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Christian Müller
>> <christian.mueller@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I share most/all of the opinions.
>>> 
>>> My additional 0,02$:
>>> - If we have to release Karaf 2.3.0 today or in the next days, may be
>> it's
>>> safer to postpone the spring31 feature for Karaf 2.4.0/3.0.0. In this
>> case,
>>> Karaf 2.4.0 should be released in the next 2 - 5 weeks.
>>> - If we can postpone Karaf 2.3.0 for 4 - 14 days, it would be great to
>>> provide the spring31 feature in Karaf 2.3.0.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Christian
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Jamie G. <jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The dependencies table Achim was mentioning:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> http://karaf.apache.org/index/documentation/karaf-dependencies/karaf-deps-2.2.x.html
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Guillaume Nodet <gnodet@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> Fwiw, mina 2.0.7 is now available, so i'll update 2.3.x branch to it,
>>>>> unless someone has already done it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Achim Nierbeck <
>> bcanhome@googlemail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think a valid "workaround" would be to offer a spring31 feature,
>> I'm
>>>>>> quite sure
>>>>>> we're able to extract that kind of feature from trunk ;)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> regarding the road-map proposal, yes this would be really helpful.
>>>>>> I know we have a Matrix showing which version does contain which
>>>>>> dependencies (@Jamie where is it located?)
>>>>>> but somehow it's again a pain to find it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think we need to redo our webpage desperately since not all
>>>>>> information can be found easily and the menu
>>>>>> doesn't necessarily relate to the content (e.g. the manual)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> regards, Achim
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2012/10/9 Charles Moulliard <ch007m@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> Even if I understand the karaf position I completely agree about
>>>> Claus's
>>>>>>> remark to also have Spring 3.1 for Camel and others projects.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What I would like to propose is that we create for Karaf/ServiceMix
>>>>>>> projects a page containing a table of the different software
used
>> and
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> a roadmap about them. This question is important not only for
>> Spring
>>>>>>> framework but also Pax, Aries, Felix, ... which are (re)packaged
>> into
>>>>>>> Karaf/ServiceMix
>>>>>>> This will avoid that we discover a few days before the publication
>> of
>>>> a
>>>>>>> release that we have miss something
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just my 5€ cents.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Claus Ibsen <claus.ibsen@gmail.com
>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 1:08 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
>> jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Agree Claus, but Camel is not the only application
running on
>>>> Karaf.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So, we have to think about "others projects" as well.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I have no problem to upgrade to Spring 3.1.x but
later (why not
>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>>> a Karaf 2.4.x for that, it could be a good indicator), and
propose
>>>> both
>>>>>>>> Spring 3.0 and 3.1 in Karaf 2.3.0 (depending of the impact,
that I
>>>> gonna
>>>>>>>> test tonight).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I agree with that.    I know CXF has had very little
testing
>> with
>>>>>> Spring
>>>>>>>> 3.1.x.    I would definitely prefer keeping on 3.0.7 for
Karaf 2.3
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> think about that for 2.4.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I also agree that this is way to close to "release" to
flip out
>> a
>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>> component like spring.   Maybe a month ago, but not now.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yeah I can understand the deadline issue as well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> But its a shame that the new shiny Karaf 2.3.0 comes out
of the
>> box
>>>>>>>> with the old Spring 3.0.7 from Dec 2011. And there has not
been
>> any
>>>>>>>> new releases of Spring 3.0.x since.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It would be cool if it was possible to provide an easy way
for
>> people
>>>>>>>> to switch Karaf to offer Spring 3.1.
>>>>>>>> Maybe that requires to offer a spring31 feature, and an easy
way
>> for
>>>>>>>> people to configure Karaf to use that.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> At Camel we have a CI job that tests Camel with Spring 3.1.
The
>>>>>>>> upgrade for Camel has been painless.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/08/2012 06:48 PM, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Jean-Baptiste
Onofré <
>>>>>> jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Camel 2.10.x uses Spring 3.0.7 for now, for
we are "aligned"
>>>> with
>>>>>>>> Camel
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.10.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does it make sense to update to Spring 3.1.x
(for future
>> Camel
>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe) ?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Well Camel 2.10 supports both Spring 3.0.x and
3.1.x. And we
>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> frankly only holding back because of Karaf.
>>>>>>>>>>> As when people deploy Camel in Karaf they inherit
the spring
>> from
>>>>>>>> Karaf.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> People in the community would like to use Spring
3.1.x as its
>>>> been
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> since December 2011.
>>>>>>>>>>> And its the stable release path where they cut
new releases.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/08/2012 05:55 PM, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Jamie
G. <
>>>>>> jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Claus,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the Karaf 2.3.0 pom file:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <spring.osgi.version>1.2.1</spring.osgi.version>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <spring2.version>2.5.6.SEC03</spring2.version>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <spring.version>3.0.7.RELEASE</spring.version>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crap I think you guys shoulder consider
switching to the
>> 3.1.2
>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Spring.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As well Jetty 7.6.7, so people have the
latest stable
>> release
>>>> of
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 important pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 1:09 PM, Claus
Ibsen <
>>>>>> claus.ibsen@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What Spring version does Karaf
2.3.0 come with out of the
>>>> box?
>>>>>>>> 3.0.x
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or the newer 3.1.x ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 10:53
AM, Jamie G. <
>>>>>>>> jamie.goodyear@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm always ready!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jamie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:08
AM, jb@nanthrax.net <
>>>>>> jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great, thanks a lot !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://wwx.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Andreas Pieber"
<anpieber@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <dev@karaf.apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Apache Karaf
2.3.0 very close
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, Oct 8, 2012
9:17 am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at
7:46 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
>>>>>>>> jb@nanthrax.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Andreas, could you
take a look on KARAF-1878 and
>>>> KARAF-1752
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (assigned to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you) ? If you are
busy today, I think we can postpone
>> to
>>>>>> 2.3.1.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to keep KARAF-1878
opened for review till
>> tonight;
>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>> apply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afterwards. I'll also
apply KARAF-1752 then.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks all guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Claus Ibsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FuseSource is now part of Red
Hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: cibsen@redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: davsclaus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://davsclaus.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>>>>>>>>>> jbonofre@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>>>>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>>> dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
>>>>>>>>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Claus Ibsen
>>>>>>>> -----------------
>>>>>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
>>>>>>>> Email: cibsen@redhat.com
>>>>>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>> Twitter: davsclaus
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://davsclaus.com
>>>>>>>> Author of Camel in Action: http://www.manning.com/ibsen
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Charles Moulliard
>>>>>>> Apache Committer / Sr. Enterprise Architect (RedHat)
>>>>>>> Twitter : @cmoulliard | Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
>>>>>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/>
>>>>>> Committer & Project Lead
>>>>>> OPS4J Pax for Vaadin
>>>>>> <http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/display/PAXVAADIN/Home> Commiter
&
>> Project
>>>>>> Lead
>>>>>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> FuseSource, Integration everywhere
>>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charles Moulliard
> Apache Committer / Sr. Enterprise Architect (RedHat)
> Twitter : @cmoulliard | Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com

-- 
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com


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