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From Jean-Baptiste Onofré ...@nanthrax.net>
Subject Re: Does the ssh:sshd command really need to create a new ssh server on each call?
Date Tue, 03 Jul 2012 13:05:33 GMT
The problem is that it will "couple other projects" (for instance Pax 
Web) with Karaf, as Karaf will "exposes" the API.

So it's not so easy, even if I would like to see a netstat command 
internally to Karaf ;)

Regards
JB

On 07/03/2012 02:47 PM, Christian Schneider wrote:
> I agree. Removing the command is probably the easiest solution. By
> changing the config you can start/stop the ssh server instantly.
>
> About the netstat like command. I am also not sure how to implement such
> a thing. One idea is to have each module that offers and external
> service also offer a osgi service that reports the metadata of this
> service. We could either have a Java interface for that or use service
> properties.
>
> In any case the metadata about each network service could be:
>
> Ipaddress / Name
> Port
> Description
> (Config PID)
> (Security Infos)
>
> So for example netstat may give:
>
> Name/Port      Service Name Description
> localhost:8101 ssh          Secure Shell
> localhost:8181 http         Jetty
> localhost:6161 ActiveMQ     ActiveMQ Messaging
>
> Optionally we could also show the config pid so people know where to
> configure port and other settings.
> We could also show some details about the security.
>
> For example if the default ssh private key may login we can show a
> warning about that.
>
> A central config file where you can set ports and if services should
> start may make sense. We should then make sure though that this
> mechanism is well a bit hidden from the modules so they do not have to
> each implement reading this file.
>
> Perhaps we could have a central service that can be asked for the port
> of a named service and if it should start. A config for a such a service
> could look like this:
>
> ssh:8101,start
> activemq:6161,stop
> http:8181,start
>
> Not sure if this is a good idea though.
>
> Christian
>
> Am 03.07.2012 14:18, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>> I'm not really sure how we could do such a netstat command if we don't
>> manage all the ports ourselves ...
>>
>> Anyway, for sshd, i guess we could get rid of the command if it isn't
>> used
>> (and I agree I've never seen anyone using it so far).  I don't think we
>> should add management layers for each port though: all the
>> configuration is
>> already centralized in configadmin, and I fear that adding lots of
>> commands
>> for managing things that we already have common management for, may just
>> confuse users.  I guess what we're missing for common ports is a simpler
>> way (more centralized) configuration file, so maybe using
>> etc/config.properties for common port configuration and using
>> placeholders
>> referring to those would be easier for users, so that they would only
>> have
>> a single file to modify...
>> Removing this sshd command will have a nice effect of removing your
>> concern
>> about mixing blueprint calls in the code btw ;-)
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Christian Schneider
>> <chris@die-schneider.net
>>> wrote:
>>> You hit a good sport there. I think we could need an information on all
>>> kind of services with external connectivity that are running.
>>>
>>> So tpyically I would like to see:
>>> - http
>>> - ssh
>>> - jmx
>>> ...
>>>
>>> As bit like netstat -l just for karaf but with some additional
>>> informations. I think such a command would also be a nice security
>>> tool to
>>> check you do not have ports open that should be closed.
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 02.07.2012 14:48, schrieb Claus Ibsen:
>>>
>>>   Hi
>>>> I miss a command to list the current running sshd servers.
>>>>
>>>> So for example if people start Karaf using bin/karaf, then there is no
>>>> easy way to find out what the SSH port is if you want to remote
>>>> connect to your Karaf.
>>>>
>>>> In that light for starters a list option on sshd would be nice
>>>> ssdh list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PS: Likewise for JMX etc.
>>>> It would be nice with some way to see in the logs / from karaf:info
>>>> etc. to see all the running management services and the urls they
>>>> expose for remote management. Today you gotta know the defaults, and
>>>> "cross fingers" that this is the options you use. If not you gotta go
>>>> hunt in the zillion config files in etc to figure out this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Christian Schneider
>>>> <chris@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> while working on the ssh part of karaf I wondered if the sshd
>>>>> command is
>>>>> really implemented in the way people need it.
>>>>> Currently each call to sshd creates a new ssh server. I personally
>>>>> never
>>>>> had
>>>>> the need to have more than one ssh server running for one instance of
>>>>> karaf.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I wonder if it would make sense to change the command to manage a
>>>>> single
>>>>> ssh server instance. Like:
>>>>>
>>>>> ssh:sshd start -p 8102
>>>>> or ssh:sshd start -p 8102
>>>>> ssh:sshd stop
>>>>>
>>>>> JB told me that ssh is used in Fabric and there it might be
>>>>> necessary to
>>>>> have more than one instance.
>>>>> @Guillaume can you give us some insight how it is used there?
>>>>>
>>>>> If we decide we need the capability to run more than one instance
>>>>> of ssh
>>>>> server then I think we should at least provide full management of
>>>>> these
>>>>> instances.
>>>>> Currently the sshd command can start any number of ssh servers but
>>>>> it can
>>>>> not stop them. I think the servers started in this way would not even
>>>>> stop
>>>>> when the ssh bundle is stopped.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also wonder if it would make sense to separate the ssh server
>>>>> part from
>>>>> the ssh client. So you can start a ssh server by installing a
>>>>> org.apache.karaf.sshd bundle or similar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Source Architect
>>>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Christian Schneider
>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>
>>> Open Source Architect
>>> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com



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