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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 08:28:00 -0700
Message-ID: 
 <CAPCjjnGNkUrZiaVjKv-PumaXSUeXhT2HfyT_qYfzSB_OEbV+_g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Discuss] Handling of initial bundles
From: Dan Tran <dantran@gmail.com>
To: dev@karaf.apache.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
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On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 5:19 AM, Christian Schneider
<chris@die-schneider.net> wrote:
> One nice =C2=A0thing about the feature files we currently use is that the=
y are
> globally adressable using a maven coordinate. So by support reading featu=
res
> we could create a very small distro that can read all it needs from maven
> repos. If maven access is not allowed/possible in an environment we can
> nicely use our system dir to make karaf fully self contained.
>
> So feature reading would allow us to have a fixed small binary distro tha=
t
> can easily be customized by users. They can already change the feature se=
t
> they want and with startup feature loading they could also customize the
> startup feature without build their own distro. We could extend that to s=
ome
> commands that allow reading features into the system dir. So the user cou=
ld
> download a small karaf binary, execute some commands at a place with mave=
n
> repo access and as a result get a customized distro he can then use in a
> closed company environment. This would be much simpler then building your
> own distro with maven like you have to do it now.

>From the perspective of karaf's feature, this is a big plus for us
since we deliver karaf to our client
in a isolated environment.

>
> Honestly the above thing would also work nicely without loading startup
> bundles from a feature file. I doubt anyway that people really need to
> change the framework bundles.
>
> Supporting the subsystem spec sounds great to me. So that may be a good
> reason to delay supporting feature reading and then only support it for t=
he
> subsystem spec features. Any way the startup feature loading from xml is =
not
> that big of an issue for me. I thought it is a nice feature but it is not
> really crucial.
>
> Now to the last part about maven support in karaf. I think at the moment
> maven support is a key feature in karaf that makes it much easier to use
> than other frameworks. It allows to install big frameworks like camel and
> cxf with just some simple commands. Whenever I show this to people who do
> not know karaf they are really impressed by it. So while I am sure that
> maven is not ideal for OSGi bundles it is the best we currently have.
>
> I fully support replacing maven with something better like obr but only w=
hen
> it is ready. So the key to that would be that all relevant bundles are
> available in OBRs. We then also would need a url for adressing bundles fr=
om
> OBRs (not sure if we have such a thing already). So replacing maven sound=
s
> like a good goal for the future but not near term. Perhaps in the end mav=
en
> and OBR grow together anyway and the big maven repos simply additionally
> support OBR. So you would address the entry points into the OBR as maven
> coordinates and resolve dependencies using the OBR features.
>
> Christian
>
> P.S. Thanks for your nice words about my contributions to karaf. I really
> like Karaf and see a great future for it. So I guess I just have to learn=
 to
> step on less toes on the way :-)
>
> Am 02.06.2012 19:26, schrieb David Jencks:
>
>> Hi Christian,
>>
>> I'm not a big fan of xml when dealing with not-very-complicated data. =
=C2=A0The
>> data in startup.properties is just about the right complexity for a
>> properties file. =C2=A0A feature repo is too much: it can contain more t=
han one
>> feature, and the name of the startup feature has to be hard coded.
>>
>> Furthermore, now that the subsystem spec is fairly final I think we shou=
ld
>> look towards using spec features as much as possible and start thinking =
of
>> karaf features as possibly obsolete. =C2=A0Pushing the karaf feature xml=
 format
>> into the framework startup is exactly opposite of this goal.
>>
>> I looked back and reviewed your patch. =C2=A0Mostly I'm impressed with h=
ow much
>> you've contributed in the last few months :-) =C2=A0I wish I had as much=
 time to
>> spend on karaf.... =C2=A0Your patch is indeed pretty simple and small bu=
t my
>> objections are really to the idea of using xml during startup rather tha=
n
>> the implementation. =C2=A0I might have missed it but didn't think you ad=
dressed
>> the question of why xml was better than a properties file.
>>
>> My views might not be shared by many others, for instance I really think
>> we should try hard to make karaf runtime independent of maven including =
the
>> mvn url handler, and I'm not sure anyone else agrees with me.
>>
>> thanks
>> david jencks
>>
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
>>
>
> --
>
> Christian Schneider
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
> Open Source Architect
> Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
>