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From John Roesler <j...@confluent.io>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-478 Strongly Typed Processor API
Date Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:32:26 GMT
Hey again Matthias,

I think it might help to frame the evaluation of the Context question if we
have a "spitball" proposal for what change we might want to make to the
context.

Currently, the ProcessorContext is referenced in the following public
interfaces:

org.apache.kafka.streams.errors.DeserializationExceptionHandler#handle
org.apache.kafka.streams.kstream.Transformer#init
org.apache.kafka.streams.kstream.ValueTransformer#init
org.apache.kafka.streams.kstream.ValueTransformerWithKey#init
org.apache.kafka.streams.processor.Processor#init
org.apache.kafka.streams.processor.StateStore#init

We can sub-divide the ProcessorContext into broad categories:
General Information:
* a handle on the config
* information about the execution context (what is the task id, the
application id, etc)
Record Information:
* extra information about the current record
Store Support:
* the ability to register state restore callbacks
Processor Support:
* the ability to schedule punctuations
* the ability to get registered state stores
* the ability to schedule punctuations
* the ability to forward records
* the ability to request commits

We could imagine slicing the Processor Context into four new component
interfaces, and making ProcessorContext just implement them. Then, we could
mix-and-match those new component interfaces for use elsewhere.

E.g.,:
org.apache.kafka.streams.errors.DeserializationExceptionHandler#handle
* only gets the informational context

org.apache.kafka.streams.kstream.Transformer#init
org.apache.kafka.streams.kstream.ValueTransformer#init
org.apache.kafka.streams.kstream.ValueTransformerWithKey#init
* information context
* the ability to get registered state stores
Also
* the ability to schedule punctuations
* restricted ability to forward (only obeying the rules of the particular
interface, for example)
Or maybe just:
* no ability to foraward
* the ability to schedule special punctuators that can return one or more
keys or values when fired

org.apache.kafka.streams.processor.Processor#init
* all the contexts, except the ability to register state restore callbacks

org.apache.kafka.streams.processor.StateStore#init
* information contexts
* the ability to register state restore callbacks
* maybe punctuations and forwards, could be discussed further


The operative question for us right now is whether there is a clean path to
something like this from the current KIP, or whether we'd be forced to
deprecate an interface we are only just now adding. Note that the only
interfaces we're adding right now are :
* org.apache.kafka.streams.processor.api.Processor
* org.apache.kafka.streams.processor.api.ProcessorSupplier
And the only thing we need to make the above spitball proposal compatible
with these proposed interfaces is to deprecate the ability to register
state restore callbacks from the ProcessorContext.

Otherwise, we would at that time be able to propose new Transformer
interfaces that take (e.g.) TransformerContexts, likewise with
DeserializationExceptionHandler and StateStore.

In other words, I _think_ that we have a clean migration path to address
the Context problem in follow-on work. But clearly my motivation may be
corrupt. What do you think?

Thanks,
-John


On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:06 PM John Roesler <john@confluent.io> wrote:

> Hey Matthias,
>
> I agree, it's worth double-checking to make sure that the upgrade path
> would be smooth. There's no point in putting ourselves in an awkward jam.
> I'll look into it and report back.
>
> Regarding the global store logic, I confirmed that the "state update
> processor" shouldn't be forwarding anything, so we can safely bound its
> output type to `Void`. I've updated the KIP.
>
> Thanks,
> -John
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 3:08 PM Matthias J. Sax <matthias@confluent.io>
> wrote:
>
>> If we don't fix the `ProcessorContext` now, how would an upgrade path
>> look like?
>>
>> We woudl deprecate existing `init()` and add a new `init()`, and during
>> runtime need to call both? This sound rather error prone to me and might
>> be confusing to users? Hence, it might be beneficial to fix it right now.
>>
>> If my concerns are not valid, and we think that the upgrade path will
>> smooth, we can of course do a follow up KIP. Another possibility would
>> be, to still do an extra KIP but ensure that both KIPs are contained in
>> the same release.
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>>
>> -Matthias
>>
>> On 7/24/19 11:55 AM, John Roesler wrote:
>> > Hey Matthias,
>> >
>> > Thanks for the review!
>> >
>> > I agree about ProcessorContext, it could certainly be split up to
>> improve
>> > compile-time clues about what is or is not permitted (like, do you just
>> > want to be able to see the extra record context vs. forawrding vs.
>> > registering state stores, as you said). But, similar to the ideas around
>> > transforms, we can hopefully make that a separate design effort outside
>> of
>> > this KIP. Is that ok with you?
>> >
>> > Note that, unlike the current Processor API, KIP-478 proposes to
>> provide a
>> > default no-op implementation of init(), which means we can deprecate it
>> > later and replace it with one taking a cleaner "context" abstraction, as
>> > you proposed.
>> >
>> > It's just that the typing change as proposed is already a very large
>> design
>> > and implementation scope. I fear that adding in new flavors of
>> > ProcessorContext would make is much harder to actually consider the
>> design,
>> > and certainly stretch out the implementation phase as well.
>> >
>> > Regarding the documentation of non-goals, that's very good feedback.
>> I'll
>> > update the KIP.
>> >
>> > Regarding addGlobalStore... I'll look into it.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> > -John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 12:27 PM Matthias J. Sax <matthias@confluent.io
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have concerns about the latest proposal from Guozhang. However, as
>> >> John said it's beyond the scope of this KIP and thus, I don't go into
>> >> details. I agree thought, that the current "transformer APIs" are not
>> >> ideal and could be improved.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> An orthogonal though is that we should split the current
>> >> `ProcessorContext` into multiple interfaces. Atm, the context can be
>> use
>> >> to:
>> >>
>> >> - access metadata
>> >> - schedule punctuation
>> >> - get state stores
>> >> - register state stores
>> >> - forward output data
>> >>
>> >> (1) registering state stores is only required if one implements a
>> custom
>> >> store, but not for a regular `Processor` implementation -- hence, it's
>> a
>> >> leaking abstraction
>> >>
>> >> (2) for `ValueTransformer` and `flatValueTransformer` we don't want to
>> >> allow forwarding key-value pairs, and hence need to throw an RTE for
>> >> this case atm
>> >>
>> >> (3) Why do we expose `keySerde()`, `valueSerde()`, and `stateDir()`
>> >> explicitly? We have already `appConfigs()` to allow users to access the
>> >> configuration.
>> >>
>> >> Overall, it seems that `ProcessorContext` is rather convoluted.
>> Because,
>> >> we add a new `Processor` abstraction, it seems like a good opportunity
>> >> to improve the interface and to not pass `ProcessroContext` into the
>> new
>> >> `Processor#init()` method, but an improved interface.
>> >>
>> >> Thoughts?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> One more nits about the KIP:
>> >>
>> >> I think, we should clearly state, that this change does not provide
>> type
>> >> safety for PAPI users. The following example would compile without any
>> >> errors or warning, even if the types don't match:
>> >>
>> >>> Topology t = new Topology();
>> >>> t.addSource("s", ...);
>> >>> t.addProcessor("p1", new ProcessorSupplier<KIn, VIn, FooKey,
>> >> BarValue>()..., "s");
>> >>> t.addProcessor("p2", new ProcessorSupplier<NotFooKey, NotBarValue,
>> KOut,
>> >> VOut>()..., "p1");
>> >>
>> >> Just want to make sure users understand the impact/scope of the change,
>> >> especially what is _not_ achieved.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> About `addGlobalStore()` -- should the return types be `Void` similar
>> to
>> >> `KStream#process()`?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Matthias
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 7/24/19 9:11 AM, Guozhang Wang wrote:
>> >>> Sounds good to me, thanks John!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Guozhang
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 7:40 AM John Roesler <john@confluent.io>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hey Guozhang,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks for the thought! It sounds related to what I was thinking in
>> >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-8396 , but a little
>> >> "extra"...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I proposed to eliminate ValueTransformer, but I believe you're
>> right; we
>> >>>> could eliminate Transformer also and just use Processor in the
>> >> transform()
>> >>>> methods.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> To your first bullet, regarding transform/flatTransform... I'd argue
>> >> that
>> >>>> the difference isn't material and if we switch to just using
>> >>>> context.forward instead of returns, then we just need one and people
>> can
>> >>>> call forward as much as they want. It certainly warrants further
>> >>>> discussion, though...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> To the second point, yes, I'm thinking that we can eschew the
>> >>>> ValueTransformer and instead do something like ignore the forwarded
>> key
>> >> or
>> >>>> check the key for serial identity, etc.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The ultimate advantage of these ideas is that we reduce the number of
>> >>>> interface variants and we also give people just one way to pass
>> values
>> >>>> forward instead of two.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Of course, it's beyond the scope of this KIP, but this KIP is a
>> >>>> precondition for these further improvements.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm copying your comment onto the ticket for posterity.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks!
>> >>>> -John
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 5:38 PM Guozhang Wang <wangguoz@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi John,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Just a wild thought about Transformer: now with the new
>> Processor<KIn,
>> >>>>> KOut, VIn, VOut>#init(ProcessorContext<KOut, VOut>), do we still
>> need a
>> >>>>> Transformer (and even ValueTransformer / ValueTransformerWithKey)?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What if:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> * We just make KStream#transform to get a ProcessorSupplier as well,
>> >> and
>> >>>>> inside `process()` we check that at most one `context.forward()` is
>> >>>> called,
>> >>>>> and then take it as the return value.
>> >>>>> * We would still use ValueTransformer for KStream#transformValue,
>> or we
>> >>>> can
>> >>>>> also use a `ProcessorSupplier where we allow at most one
>> >>>>> `context.forward()` AND we ignore whatever passed in as key but just
>> >> use
>> >>>>> the original key.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Guozhang
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 9:03 AM John Roesler <john@confluent.io>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hi again, all,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I have started the voting thread. Please cast your votes (or voice
>> >>>>>> your objections)! The vote will remain open at least 72 hours.
>> Once it
>> >>>>>> closes, I can send the PR pretty quickly.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thanks for all you help ironing out the details on this feature.
>> >>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 5:09 PM John Roesler <john@confluent.io>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hey all,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> It sounds like there's general agreement now on this KIP, so I
>> >>>> updated
>> >>>>>>> the KIP to fit in with Guozhang's overall proposed package
>> structure.
>> >>>>>>> Specifically, the proposed name for the new Processor interface is
>> >>>>>>> "org.apache.kafka.streams.processor.api.Processor".
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If there are no objections, then I plan to start the vote
>> tomorrow!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thanks, all, for your contributions.
>> >>>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 1:50 PM Matthias J. Sax <
>> >>>> matthias@confluent.io
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Side remark:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Now that "flat transform" is a specific
>> >>>>>>>>>> part of the API it seems okay to steer folks in that direction
>> >>>> (to
>> >>>>>> never
>> >>>>>>>>>> use context.process in a transformer), but it should be called
>> >>>> out
>> >>>>>>>>>> explicitly in javadocs.  Currently Transformer (which is used
>> >>>> for
>> >>>>>> both
>> >>>>>>>>>> transform() and flatTransform() ) doesn't really call out the
>> >>>>>> ambiguity:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Would you want to do a PR for address this? We are always eager
>> to
>> >>>>>>>> improve the JavaDocs!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> -Matthias
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 7/7/19 11:26 AM, Paul Whalen wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> First of all, +1 on the whole idea, my team has run into
>> >>>>> (admittedly
>> >>>>>> minor,
>> >>>>>>>>> but definitely annoying) issues because of the weaker typing.
>> >>>>> We're
>> >>>>>> heavy
>> >>>>>>>>> users of the PAPI and have Processors that, while not hundreds
>> of
>> >>>>>> lines
>> >>>>>>>>> long, are certainly quite hefty and call context.forward() in
>> >>>> many
>> >>>>>> places.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> After reading the KIP and discussion a few times, I've convinced
>> >>>>>> myself
>> >>>>>>>>> that any initial concerns I had aren't really concerns at all
>> >>>>> (state
>> >>>>>> store
>> >>>>>>>>> types, for one).  One thing I will mention:  changing
>> >>>> *Transformer*
>> >>>>>> to have
>> >>>>>>>>> ProcessorContext<Void, Void> gave me pause, because I have code
>> >>>>> that
>> >>>>>> does
>> >>>>>>>>> context.forward in transformers.  Now that "flat transform" is a
>> >>>>>> specific
>> >>>>>>>>> part of the API it seems okay to steer folks in that direction
>> >>>> (to
>> >>>>>> never
>> >>>>>>>>> use context.process in a transformer), but it should be called
>> >>>> out
>> >>>>>>>>> explicitly in javadocs.  Currently Transformer (which is used
>> for
>> >>>>>> both
>> >>>>>>>>> transform() and flatTransform() ) doesn't really call out the
>> >>>>>> ambiguity:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> https://github.com/apache/kafka/blob/ca641b3e2e48c14ff308181c775775408f5f35f7/streams/src/main/java/org/apache/kafka/streams/kstream/Transformer.java#L75-L77
>> >>>>>> ,
>> >>>>>>>>> and for migrating users (from before flatTransform) it could be
>> >>>>>> confusing.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Side note, I'd like to plug KIP-401 (there is a discussion
>> thread
>> >>>>>> and a
>> >>>>>>>>> voting thread) which also relates to using the PAPI.  It seems
>> >>>> like
>> >>>>>> there
>> >>>>>>>>> is some interest and it is in a votable state with the majority
>> >>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>> implementation complete.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Paul
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 2:02 PM Bill Bejeck <bbejeck@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry for coming late to the party.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> As for the naming I'm in favor of RecordProcessor as well.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I agree that we should not take on doing all of the package
>> >>>>>> movements as
>> >>>>>>>>>> part of this KIP, especially as John has pointed out, it will
>> be
>> >>>>> an
>> >>>>>>>>>> opportunity to discuss some clean-up on individual classes
>> >>>> which I
>> >>>>>> envision
>> >>>>>>>>>> becoming another somewhat involved process.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> For the end goal, if possible, here's what I propose.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>    1. We keep the scope of the KIP the same, *but we only
>> >>>>>> implement* *it in
>> >>>>>>>>>>    phases*
>> >>>>>>>>>>    2. Phase one could include what Guozhang had proposed
>> earlier
>> >>>>>> namely
>> >>>>>>>>>>    1. > 1.a) modifying ProcessorContext only with the output
>> >>>> types
>> >>>>>> on
>> >>>>>>>>>>       forward.
>> >>>>>>>>>>       > 1.b) modifying Transformer signature to have generics
>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>       ProcessorContext,
>> >>>>>>>>>>       > and then lift the restricting of not using punctuate:
>> if
>> >>>>>> user did
>> >>>>>>>>>>       not
>> >>>>>>>>>>       > follow the enforced typing and just code without
>> >>>> generics,
>> >>>>>> they
>> >>>>>>>>>>       will get
>> >>>>>>>>>>       > warning at compile time and get run-time error if they
>> >>>>>> forward
>> >>>>>>>>>>       wrong-typed
>> >>>>>>>>>>       > records, which I think would be acceptable.
>> >>>>>>>>>>    3. Then we could tackle other pieces in an incremental
>> manner
>> >>>>> as
>> >>>>>> we see
>> >>>>>>>>>>    what makes sense
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Just my 2cents
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> -Bill
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:22 PM Guozhang Wang <
>> >>>>> wangguoz@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah I think we should not do all the repackaging as part of
>> >>>> this
>> >>>>>> KIP as
>> >>>>>>>>>>> well (we can just do the movement of the Processor /
>> >>>>>> ProcessorSupplier),
>> >>>>>>>>>>> but I think we need to discuss the end goal here since
>> >>>> otherwise
>> >>>>>> we may
>> >>>>>>>>>> do
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the repackaging of Processor in this KIP, but only later on
>> >>>>>> realizing
>> >>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>> other re-packagings are not our favorite solutions.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Guozhang
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 3:06 PM John Roesler <
>> >>>> john@confluent.io>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Guozhang,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the idea! I'm wondering if we could take a middle
>> >>>>>> ground
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and take your proposed layout as a "roadmap", while only
>> >>>>> actually
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> moving the classes that are already involved in this KIP.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The reason I ask is not just to control the scope of this
>> KIP,
>> >>>>> but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> also, I think that if we move other classes to new packages,
>> >>>> we
>> >>>>>> might
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> also want to take the opportunity to clean up other things
>> >>>> about
>> >>>>>> them.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But each one of those would become a discussion point of its
>> >>>>> own,
>> >>>>>> so
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> it seems the discussion would become intractable. FWIW, I do
>> >>>>> like
>> >>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> idea for precisely this reason, it creates opportunities for
>> >>>> us
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> consider other changes that we are simply not able to make
>> >>>>> without
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> breaking source compatibility.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If the others feel "kind of favorable" with this overall
>> >>>> vision,
>> >>>>>> maybe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we can make one or more Jira tickets to capture it, and then
>> >>>>> just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> alter _this_ proposal to `processor.api.Processor` (etc).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WDYT?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 7:17 PM Guozhang Wang <
>> >>>>> wangguoz@gmail.com
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello John,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your detailed explanation, I've done some quick
>> >>>>>> checks on
>> >>>>>>>>>>> some
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> existing examples that heavily used Processor and the
>> results
>> >>>>>> also
>> >>>>>>>>>>> makes
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> me
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> worried about my previous statements that "the breakage
>> would
>> >>>>>> not be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> big".
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree we should maintain compatibility.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> About the naming itself, I'm actually a bit inclined into
>> >>>>>>>>>> sub-packages
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> than
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> renamed new classes, and my motivations are that our current
>> >>>>>>>>>> packaging
>> >>>>>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> already quite coarsen grained and sometimes ill-placed, and
>> >>>>> hence
>> >>>>>>>>>> maybe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> can take this change along with some clean up on packages
>> >>>> (but
>> >>>>>> again,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> should follow the deprecate - removal path). What I'm
>> >>>> thinking
>> >>>>>> is:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> processor/:
>> >>>>>> StateRestoreCallback/AbstractNotifyingRestoreCallback,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (deprecated
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> later, same meaning for other cross-throughs),
>> >>>> ProcessContest,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> RecordContext, Punctuator, PunctuationType, To, Cancellable
>> >>>>> (are
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> only
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> things left)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) processor/api/: Processor, ProcessorSupplier (and of
>> >>>>>> course,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> these
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> two classes can be strong typed)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> state/: StateStore, BatchingStateRestoreCallback,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> AbstractNotifyingBatchingRestoreCallback (moved from
>> >>>>> processor/),
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> PartitionGrouper, WindowStoreIterator, StateSerdes (this one
>> >>>>> can
>> >>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>> moved
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> into state/internals), TimestampedByteStore (we can move
>> this
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> internals
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> since store types would use vat by default, see below),
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ValueAndTimestamp
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) state/factory/: Stores, StoreBuilder, StoreSupplier;
>> >>>>> *BUT*
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> new
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stores would not have timestampedXXBuilder APIs since the
>> >>>>> default
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> StoreSupplier / StoreBuilder value types are
>> >>>> ValueAndTimestamp
>> >>>>>>>>>> already.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) state/queryable/: QueryableStoreType,
>> >>>>> QueryableStoreTypes,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> HostInfo
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) state/keyValue/: KeyValueXXX classes, and also the
>> same
>> >>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> state/sessionWindow and state/timeWindow; *BUT* here we use
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ValueAndTimestamp as value types of those APIs directly, and
>> >>>>> also
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> TimestampedKeyValue/WindowStore would be deprecated.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) kstream/api/: KStream, KTable, GroupedKStream (renamed
>> >>>>> from
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> KGroupedStream), GroupedKTable (renamed from KGroupedTable),
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> TimeWindowedKStream, SessionWindowedKStream, GlobalKTable
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) kstream/operator/: Aggregator, ForeachFunction,  ... ,
>> >>>>>> Merger
>> >>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Grouped, Joined, Materialized, ... , Printed and
>> Transformer,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> TransformerSupplier.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) kstream/window/: Window, Windows, Windowed,
>> >>>> TimeWindows,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> SessionWindows, UnlimitedWindows, JoinWindows,
>> >>>> WindowedSerdes,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Time/SessionWindowedSerialized/Deserializer.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) configure/: RocksDBConfigSetter, TopicNameExtractor,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> TimestampExtractor, UsePreviousTimeOnInvalidTimestamp,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> WallclockTimestampExtractor, ExtractRecordMetadataTimestamp,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> FailOnInvalidTimestamp, LogAndSkipOnInvalidTimestamp,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> StateRestoreListener,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (new) metadata/: StreamsMetadata, ThreadMetadata,
>> >>>> TaskMetadata,
>> >>>>>>>>>> TaskId
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Still, any xxx/internals packages are declared as inner
>> >>>>> classes,
>> >>>>>> but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> other
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> xxx/yyy packages are declared as public APIs.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a very wild thought and I can totally understand if
>> >>>>>> people
>> >>>>>>>>>> feel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this is too much since it definitely enlarges the scope of
>> >>>> this
>> >>>>>> KIP a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> lot
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> :) just trying to play a devil's advocate here to do major
>> >>>>>>>>>> refactoring
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid renaming Processor classes.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Guozhang
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 9:51 PM Matthias J. Sax <
>> >>>>>>>>>> matthias@confluent.io
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think `RecordProcessor` is a good name.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Matthias
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/21/19 5:09 PM, John Roesler wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After kicking the naming around a bit more, it seems like
>> >>>> any
>> >>>>>>>>>>> package
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name change is a bit "weird" because it fragments the
>> >>>> package
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directory structure. If we can come up with a reasonable
>> >>>> name
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface after all, it seems like the better choice.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The real challenge is that the existing name "Processor"
>> >>>>> seems
>> >>>>>>>>>> just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about perfect. In picking a new name, we need to consider
>> >>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ultimate
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state, after the deprecation period, when we entirely
>> >>>> remove
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Processor. In this context, TypedProcessor seems a little
>> >>>> odd
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> me,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it seems to imply that there should also be an
>> >>>>> "untyped
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> processor".
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After kicking around a few other ideas, what does everyone
>> >>>>>> think
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> about
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "RecordProcessor"? I _think_ maybe it stands on its own
>> >>>> just
>> >>>>>>>>>> fine,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it's a thing that processes... records?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If others agree with this, I can change the proposal to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> RecordProcessor.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 6:42 PM John Roesler <
>> >>>>>> john@confluent.io>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've updated the KIP with the feedback so far.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The naming question is still the biggest (only?)
>> >>>> outstanding
>> >>>>>>>>>>> issue.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be good to hear some more thoughts on it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we stand now, there's one vote for changing the
>> package
>> >>>>>> name
>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like 'typedprocessor', one for changing the
>> >>>>>> interface
>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TypedProcessor (as in the PoC), and one for just changing
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Processor interface in-place, breaking source
>> >>>> compatibility.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can we resolve this decision?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 5:44 PM John Roesler <
>> >>>>>> john@confluent.io
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback, Guozhang and Matthias,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding motivation: I'll update the wiki. Briefly:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Any processor can benefit. Imagine a pure user of the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ProcessorAPI
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who has very complex processing logic. I have seen
>> >>>> several
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> processor
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation that are hundreds of lines long and call
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `context.forward` in many different locations and
>> >>>> branches.
>> >>>>>> In
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> such an
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation, it would be very easy to have a bug in a
>> >>>>>> rarely
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> used
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> branch that forwards the wrong kind of value. This would
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> structurally
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent that from happening.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Also, anyone who heavily uses the ProcessorAPI would
>> >>>>> likely
>> >>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developed helper methods to wire together processors,
>> >>>> just
>> >>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>>>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the DSL implementation. This change would enable them
>> >>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ensure
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> at
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compile time that they are actually wiring together
>> >>>>>> compatible
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> types.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was actually _my_ original motivation, since I
>> found
>> >>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>> very
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult and time consuming to follow the Streams DSL
>> >>>>>> internal
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> builders.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding breaking the source compatibility of
>> >>>> Processor: I
>> >>>>>>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _love_ to side-step the naming problem, but I really
>> >>>> don't
>> >>>>>> know
>> >>>>>>>>>>> if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's excusable to break compatibility. I suspect that
>> our
>> >>>>>>>>>> oldest
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dearest friends are using the ProcessorAPI in some form
>> >>>> or
>> >>>>>>>>>>> another,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and all their source code would break. It sucks to have
>> >>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> create a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole new interface to get around this, but it feels
>> like
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> right
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing to do. Would be nice to get even more feedback on
>> >>>>> this
>> >>>>>>>>>>> point,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the types of stores, as I said in my response
>> >>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sophie,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's not an issue.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the change to StreamsBuilder, it doesn't pin
>> >>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>> types
>> >>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any way, since all the types are bounded by Object only,
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>> there
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no extra constraints between arguments (each type is
>> used
>> >>>>>> only
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> once in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one argument). But maybe I missed the point you were
>> >>>> asking
>> >>>>>>>>>>> about.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the type takes generic paramters, we should allow
>> >>>>> users
>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> pass
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in parameterized arguments. Otherwise, they would _have
>> >>>> to_
>> >>>>>>>>>> give
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> us a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raw type, and they would be forced to get a "rawtyes"
>> >>>>> warning
>> >>>>>>>>>>> from
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compiler. So, it's our obligation in any API that
>> >>>> accepts a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameterized-type parameter to allow people to actually
>> >>>>>> pass a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameterized type, even if we don't actually use the
>> >>>>>>>>>> parameters.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The naming question is a complex one, as I took pains to
>> >>>>>> detail
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previously. Please don't just pick out one minor point,
>> >>>>> call
>> >>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> weak,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then claim that it invalidates the whole decision. I
>> >>>>>> don't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> think
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's a clear best choice, so I'm more than happy for
>> >>>>>> someone
>> >>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advocate for renaming the class instead of the package.
>> >>>> Can
>> >>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide some reasons why you think that would be better?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the deprecated methods, you're absolutely
>> >>>> right.
>> >>>>>> I'll
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> update the KIP.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again for all the feedback!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 4:34 PM Matthias J. Sax <
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> matthias@confluent.io>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just want to second what Sophie said about the stores.
>> >>>> The
>> >>>>>>>>>> type
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> of a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used stores is completely independent of input/output
>> >>>>> types.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This related to change `addGlobalStore()` method. Why
>> do
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>>> want
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> pin
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the types? In fact, people request the ability to
>> >>>> filter()
>> >>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even map() the data before they are put into the global
>> >>>>>> store.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Limiting
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the types seems to be a step backward here?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, the pack name is questionable.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This wouldn't be the first project to do something
>> like
>> >>>>>>>>>> this...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not a strong argument. I would actually propose to not
>> >>>> a a
>> >>>>>> new
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> package,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but just a new class `TypedProcessor`.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For `ProcessorContext#forward` methods -- some of those
>> >>>>>>>>>> methods
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> are
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already deprecated. While the will still be affected,
>> it
>> >>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> worth
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to mark them as deprecated in the wiki page, too.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Guozhang: I dont' think we should break source
>> >>>>>> compatibility
>> >>>>>>>>>>> in a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> minor
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Matthias
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/20/19 1:43 PM, Guozhang Wang wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for KIP! I've a few comments below:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. So far the "Motivation" section is very general,
>> and
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> only
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example that I have in mind is
>> >>>>> `TransformValues#punctuate`.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Do
>> >>>>>>>>>>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have any
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other concrete issues that drive this KIP? If not then
>> >>>> I
>> >>>>>> feel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> better to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow the scope of this KIP to:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.a) modifying ProcessorContext only with the output
>> >>>>> types
>> >>>>>> on
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> forward.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.b) modifying Transformer signature to have generics
>> >>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ProcessorContext,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then lift the restricting of not using punctuate:
>> >>>> if
>> >>>>>> user
>> >>>>>>>>>>> did
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow the enforced typing and just code without
>> >>>>> generics,
>> >>>>>>>>>> they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> will get
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> warning at compile time and get run-time error if they
>> >>>>>>>>>> forward
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong-typed
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> records, which I think would be acceptable.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel this would be a good solution for this specific
>> >>>>>> issue;
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> again, feel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free to update the wiki page with other known issues
>> >>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resolved.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. If, we want to go with the current scope then my
>> >>>> next
>> >>>>>>>>>>> question
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> would be,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much breakage we would introducing if we just
>> >>>> modify
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Processor
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> signature directly? My feeling is that DSL users would
>> >>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>> most
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> likely not
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> affected and PAPI users only need to modify a few
>> lines
>> >>>>> on
>> >>>>>>>>>>> class
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> declaration. I feel it worth doing some research on
>> >>>> this
>> >>>>>> part
>> >>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decide if we really want to bite the bullet of
>> >>>> duplicated
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Processor
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> /
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ProcessorSupplier classes for maintaining
>> >>>> compatibility.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guozhang
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:21 PM John Roesler <
>> >>>>>>>>>>> john@confluent.io
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In response to the feedback so far, I changed the
>> >>>>> package
>> >>>>>>>>>> name
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> from
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `processor2` to `processor.generic`.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:49 PM John Roesler <
>> >>>>>>>>>>> john@confluent.io
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback, Sophie!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I actually felt a little uneasy when I wrote that
>> >>>>> remark,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> because
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not restricted at all in the API, it's just
>> available
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>>> if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choose to give your stores and context the same
>> >>>>>> parameters.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So, I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think your use case is valid, and also perfectly
>> >>>>>>>>>> permissable
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> under the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current KIP. Sorry for sowing confusion on my own
>> >>>>>>>>>> discussion
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thread!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not crazy about the package name, either. I went
>> >>>>> with
>> >>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> only
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because there's seemingly nothing special about the
>> >>>> new
>> >>>>>>>>>>> package
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> except
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it can't have the same name as the old one.
>> >>>>>> Otherwise,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing "processor" and "Processor" names for the
>> >>>>>> package
>> >>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> class
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are perfectly satisfying. Rather than pile on
>> >>>>> additional
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics, it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seemed cleaner to just add a number to the package
>> >>>>> name.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This wouldn't be the first project to do something
>> >>>> like
>> >>>>>>>>>>> this...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Commons, for example, has added a "2" to the end of
>> >>>>> some
>> >>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> their
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> packages for exactly the same reason.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm open to any suggestions. For example, we could
>> do
>> >>>>>>>>>>> something
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.kafka.streams.typedprocessor.Processor or
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.kafka.streams.processor.typed.Processor ,
>> >>>>>> which
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just about the same effect. One microscopic thought
>> >>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>>> that,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's another interface in the "processor" package
>> >>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wish
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do the same thing to, would _could_ pile it in to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> "processor2",
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't do the same if we use a package that has
>> >>>>> "typed"
>> >>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> name,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unless that change is _also_ related to types in
>> some
>> >>>>>> way.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> But
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems like a very minor concern.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's your preference?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 3:56 PM Sophie Blee-Goldman
>> <
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sophie@confluent.io>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey John, thanks for writing this up! I like the
>> >>>>>> proposal
>> >>>>>>>>>>> but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point that I think may be too restrictive:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "A processor that happens to use a typed store is
>> >>>>>> actually
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> emitting the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same types that it is storing."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can imagine someone could want to leverage this
>> >>>> new
>> >>>>>> type
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> safety
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also limiting how they can interact with/use their
>> >>>>>> store.
>> >>>>>>>>>> As
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> an
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (admittedly
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrived) example, say you have an input stream of
>> >>>>>>>>>>> purchases
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> type (entertainment, food, etc), and on seeing a
>> new
>> >>>>>>>>>> record
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> output how many types of purchase a shopper has
>> made
>> >>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> than 5
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchases
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of in the last month. Your state store will
>> probably
>> >>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> holding
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complicated PurchaseHistory object (keyed by user),
>> >>>>> but
>> >>>>>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> output is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a <User, Long>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm also not crazy about "processor2" as the
>> package
>> >>>>>> name
>> >>>>>>>>>>> ...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a better one would be though (something with
>> >>>> "typed"?)
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 12:47 PM John Roesler <
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> john@confluent.io>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to propose KIP-478 (
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/2SkLBw
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This proposal would add output type bounds to the
>> >>>>>>>>>> Processor
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> interface
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Kafka Streams, which enables static checking of
>> >>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>> number
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properties:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A processor B that consumes the output of
>> >>>>> processor A
>> >>>>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expecting the same types that processor A
>> produces.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A processor that happens to use a typed store is
>> >>>>>>>>>> actually
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> emitting
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same types that it is storing.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A processor is simply forwarding the expected
>> >>>> types
>> >>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>>>> all
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> code
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paths.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Processors added via the Streams DSL, which are
>> >>>> not
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> permitted
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward results at all are statically prevented
>> >>>> from
>> >>>>>>>>>> doing
>> >>>>>>>>>>> so
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compiler
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Internally, we can use the above properties to
>> >>>>> achieve
>> >>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> much
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> higher
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level of confidence in the Streams DSL
>> >>>>> implementation's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> correctness.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, while doing the POC, I found a few bugs
>> >>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> mistakes,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become structurally impossible with KIP-478.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Additionally, the stronger types dramatically
>> >>>> improve
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-documentation of our Streams internal
>> >>>>>>>>>> implementations,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes it much easier for new contributors to ramp
>> >>>> up
>> >>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> confidence.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much for your consideration!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -John
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Guozhang
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- Guozhang
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> -- Guozhang
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>

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