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From xiongqi wu <xiongq...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] KIP-354 Time-based log compaction policy
Date Sat, 10 Nov 2018 03:56:57 GMT
Thanks Dong.
I have updated the KIP.

Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu


On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 5:31 PM Dong Lin <lindong28@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the KIP Xiongqi. LGTM. +1 (binding)
>
> One minor comment: it may be a bit better to clarify in the public
> interface section that the value of the newly added metric is determined
> based by applying that formula across all compactable segments. For
> example:
>
> The maximum value of Math.max(now -
> earliest_timestamp_in_ms_of_uncompacted_segment - max.compaction.lag.ms,
> 0)/1000 across all compactable partitions, where the max.compaction.lag.ms
> can be overridden on per-topic basis.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 5:16 PM xiongqi wu <xiongqiwu@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Joel.
> > Tracking the delay at second granularity makes sense
> > I have updated KIP.
> >
> > Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 5:05 PM Joel Koshy <jjkoshy.w@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 with one suggestion on the proposed metric. You should probably
> > include
> > > the unit. So for e.g., max-compaction-delay-secs.
> > >
> > > Joel
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 5:30 PM xiongqi wu <xiongqiwu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > bump
> > > > Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM xiongqi wu <xiongqiwu@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Eno, Brett, Dong, Guozhang, Colin,  and Xiaohe for feedback.
> > > > > Can I have more feedback or VOTE on this KIP?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 10:52 AM xiongqi wu <xiongqiwu@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Any other votes or comments?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 11:45 AM xiongqi wu <xiongqiwu@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Yes, more votes and code review.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 11:37 PM Brett Rann
> > > <brann@zendesk.com.invalid
> > > > >
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> +1 (non binding) from on 0 then, and on the KIP.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Where do we go from here? More votes?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 5:34 AM Colin McCabe <
> cmccabe@apache.org>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018, at 11:44, xiongqi wu wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > Thank you for comments. I will use '0' for now.
> > > > >>>> > >
> > > > >>>> > > If we create topics through admin client in the future, we
> > might
> > > > >>>> perform
> > > > >>>> > > some useful checks. (but the assumption is all brokers in
> the
> > > same
> > > > >>>> > cluster
> > > > >>>> > > have the same default configurations value, otherwise,it
> might
> > > > >>>> still be
> > > > >>>> > > tricky to do such cross validation check.)
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > This isn't something that we might do in the future-- this is
> > > > >>>> something we
> > > > >>>> > are doing now. We already have Create Topic policies which are
> > > > >>>> enforced by
> > > > >>>> > the broker. Check KIP-108 and KIP-170 for details. This is one
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > >>>> > motivations for getting rid of direct ZK access-- making sure
> > that
> > > > >>>> these
> > > > >>>> > policies are applied.
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > I agree that having different configurations on different
> > brokers
> > > > can
> > > > >>>> be
> > > > >>>> > confusing and frustrating . That's why more configurations are
> > > being
> > > > >>>> made
> > > > >>>> > dynamic using KIP-226. Dynamic configurations are stored
> > centrally
> > > > in
> > > > >>>> ZK,
> > > > >>>> > so they are the same on all brokers (modulo propagation
> delays).
> > > In
> > > > >>>> any
> > > > >>>> > case, this is a general issue, not specific to "create
> topics".
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > cheers,
> > > > >>>> > Colin
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> > > > >>>> > >
> > > > >>>> > > Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >>>> > >
> > > > >>>> > >
> > > > >>>> > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 11:15 AM Colin McCabe <
> > > cmccabe@apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > >
> > > > >>>> > > > I don't have a strong opinion. But I think we should
> > probably
> > > be
> > > > >>>> > > > consistent with how segment.ms works, and just use 0.
> > > > >>>> > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > best,
> > > > >>>> > > > Colin
> > > > >>>> > > >
> > > > >>>> > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, at 21:19, Brett Rann wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > OK thanks for that clarification. I see why you're
> > > > uncomfortable
> > > > >>>> > with 0
> > > > >>>> > > > now.
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > I'm not really fussed. I just prefer consistency in
> > > > >>>> configuration
> > > > >>>> > > > options.
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > Personally I lean towards treating 0 and 1 similarly in
> > that
> > > > >>>> > scenario,
> > > > >>>> > > > > because it favours the person thinking about setting the
> > > > >>>> > configurations,
> > > > >>>> > > > > and a person doesn't care about a 1ms edge case
> especially
> > > > when
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> > > > context
> > > > >>>> > > > > is the true minimum is tied to the log cleaner cadence.
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > Introducing 0 to mean "disabled" because there is some
> > > > >>>> uniquness in
> > > > >>>> > > > > segment.ms not being able to be set to 0, reduces
> > > > configuration
> > > > >>>> > > > consistency
> > > > >>>> > > > > in favour of capturing a MS gap in an edge case that
> > nobody
> > > > >>>> would
> > > > >>>> > ever
> > > > >>>> > > > > notice. For someone to understand why everywhere else -1
> > is
> > > > >>>> used to
> > > > >>>> > > > > disable, but here 0 is used, they would need to learn
> > about
> > > > >>>> > segment.ms
> > > > >>>> > > > > having a 1ms minimum and then after learning would think
> > > "who
> > > > >>>> cares
> > > > >>>> > about
> > > > >>>> > > > > 1ms?" in this context. I would anyway :)
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > my 2c anyway. Will again defer to majority. Curious
> which
> > > way
> > > > >>>> Colin
> > > > >>>> > falls
> > > > >>>> > > > > now.
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > Don't want to spend more time on this though, It's well
> > into
> > > > >>>> > > > bikeshedding
> > > > >>>> > > > > territory now. :)
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 1:31 PM xiongqi wu <
> > > > xiongqiwu@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > I want to honor the minimum value of segment.ms
> (which
> > is
> > > > >>>> 1ms) to
> > > > >>>> > > > force
> > > > >>>> > > > > > roll an active segment.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > So if we set "max.compaction.lag.ms" any value > 0,
> the
> > > > >>>> minimum of
> > > > >>>> > > > > > max.compaction.lag.ms and segment.ms will be used to
> > seal
> > > > an
> > > > >>>> > active
> > > > >>>> > > > > > segment.
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > If we set max.compaction.lag.ms to 0, the current
> > > > >>>> implementation
> > > > >>>> > will
> > > > >>>> > > > > > treat it as disabled.
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > It is a little bit weird to treat max.compaction.lag=0
> > the
> > > > >>>> same as
> > > > >>>> > > > > > max.compaction.lag=1.
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > There might be a reason why we set the minimum of
> > > > segment.ms
> > > > >>>> to 1,
> > > > >>>> > > > and I
> > > > >>>> > > > > > don't want to break this assumption.
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 7:54 PM Brett Rann
> > > > >>>> > <brann@zendesk.com.invalid>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > You're rolling a new segment if the condition is met
> > > > right?
> > > > >>>> So
> > > > >>>> > I'm
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > struggling to understand the relevance of
> segment.ms
> > > > here.
> > > > >>>> > Maybe an
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > example
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > would help my understanding:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > segment.ms=9999999
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > *min.cleanable.dirty.ratio=1*
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > max.compaction.lag.ms=1
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > When a duplicate message comes in, after 1ms the
> topic
> > > > >>>> should be
> > > > >>>> > > > eligible
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > for compaction when the log compaction thread gets
> > > around
> > > > to
> > > > >>>> > > > evaluating
> > > > >>>> > > > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > topic.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > if we have
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > segment.ms=9999999
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > *min.cleanable.dirty.ratio=1*
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > max.compaction.lag.ms=0
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > When a duplicate message comes in, after 0ms the
> topic
> > > > >>>> should be
> > > > >>>> > > > eligible
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > for compaction when the log compaction thread gets
> > > around
> > > > to
> > > > >>>> > > > evaluating
> > > > >>>> > > > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > topic.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > In both of those cases the change would mean a new
> > > segment
> > > > >>>> is
> > > > >>>> > rolled
> > > > >>>> > > > so
> > > > >>>> > > > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > new message would be part of the compaction task. 0
> > and
> > > 1
> > > > >>>> are
> > > > >>>> > > > practically
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > the same meaning since neither is providing an
> actual
> > > > >>>> guarantee
> > > > >>>> > at
> > > > >>>> > > > such
> > > > >>>> > > > > > low
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > MS settings, but effectively tying it to both the
> > > > frequency
> > > > >>>> of
> > > > >>>> > the
> > > > >>>> > > > log
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > cleaner running and the priority of the given topic
> > > being
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> > highest
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > priority of all topics that are evaluated for
> cleaning
> > > on
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>> > next
> > > > >>>> > > > cycle.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > You've captured that nuance with careful "skipped"
> > > wording
> > > > >>>> in
> > > > >>>> > the KIP
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > here "controls
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > the max time interval a message/segment can be
> skipped
> > > for
> > > > >>>> log
> > > > >>>> > > > > > compaction".
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > How is 0 different to 1, practically? And how is it
> > > > >>>> relating to
> > > > >>>> > > > > > segment.ms
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > ?
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > Is it that you're proposing to have 0 mean "use
> > > > segment.ms
> > > > >>>> > > > instead?" as
> > > > >>>> > > > > > a
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > kind of third option?
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:34 AM xiongqi wu <
> > > > >>>> xiongqiwu@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > To make it clear,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > I don't against using -1 as disabled, but we need
> to
> > > > come
> > > > >>>> up
> > > > >>>> > with
> > > > >>>> > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > meaning of "0".
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > If "0" means immediate compaction, but the actual
> > > > >>>> compaction
> > > > >>>> > lag
> > > > >>>> > > > will
> > > > >>>> > > > > > be
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > segment.ms.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > It has longer lag than setting the value to be
> half
> > of
> > > > >>>> > segment.ms.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > We cannot provide "0" as max compaction lag.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > Here are two options.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > Option 1:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > Keep 0 as disabled
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > Option 2:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > -1 (disabled), 0 (max compaction lag = segment.ms
> ),
> > > and
> > > > >>>> > others.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 5:49 PM Brett Rann
> > > > >>>> > > > <brann@zendesk.com.invalid>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > -1 is consistent as "special" with these
> settings
> > > for
> > > > >>>> > example:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > log.retention.bytes
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > socket.received.buffer.bytes
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > socket.send.buffer.bytes
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > queued.max.request.bytes
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > retention.bytes
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > retention.ms
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > and acks.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > Where it may mean no limit, use OS defaults, max
> > > > (acks),
> > > > >>>> > etc. I
> > > > >>>> > > > don't
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > see
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > much convention of 0 meaning those things.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > There are some NULLs but it seems convetion
> there
> > is
> > > > >>>> NULL is
> > > > >>>> > used
> > > > >>>> > > > > > where
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > there's another setting in the hierarchy that
> > would
> > > be
> > > > >>>> used
> > > > >>>> > > > instead.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:42 AM Brett Rann <
> > > > >>>> > brann@zendesk.com>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > If segment.ms can't be set to 0, then we're
> not
> > > > being
> > > > >>>> > > > consistent
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > by using 0 for this new setting? I throw out
> -1
> > > for
> > > > >>>> > > > consideration
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > again :)
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:03 AM xiongqi wu <
> > > > >>>> > > > xiongqiwu@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> Thanks. I will document after PR is merged.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> BTW, Kafka enforce the minimum of "
> segment.ms"
> > > to
> > > > >>>> 1, we
> > > > >>>> > > > cannot
> > > > >>>> > > > > > set
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > "
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> segment.ms" to 0.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> I also updated the title of this KIP.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 4:34 PM Brett Rann
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <brann@zendesk.com.invalid
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > I withdraw my comments on -1 since i'm in
> the
> > > > >>>> minority.
> > > > >>>> > :)
> > > > >>>> > > > Can
> > > > >>>> > > > > > we
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > make sure 0 gets documented as meaning
> > disabled
> > > > >>>> here:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > >>>> https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs
> > > > >>>> > <https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs
> > > > >>>> > <https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > <
> > > https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs
> > > > >>>> > <https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs
> > > > >>>> > <https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs>>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> <
> > > > >>>> https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs
> > > > >>>> > <https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs
> > > > >>>> > <https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > <
> > > https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs
> > > > >>>> > <https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs
> > > > >>>> > <https://kafka.apache.org/documentation/#brokerconfigs>>>> ?
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > And while there it would be good if
> > segment.ms
> > > > is
> > > > >>>> > > > documented
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > that 0 is disabled too. (there's some
> > hierarchy
> > > > of
> > > > >>>> > configs
> > > > >>>> > > > for
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > that
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > too
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > if its not set and null for others means
> > > > disabled!)
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 4:44 AM xiongqi wu <
> > > > >>>> > > > xiongqiwu@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > If we use 0 to indicate immediate
> > compaction,
> > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > compaction
> > > > >>>> > > > > > lag
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > is
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > determined by segment.ms in worst case.
> If
> > > > >>>> segment.ms
> > > > >>>> > is
> > > > >>>> > > > 24
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > hours,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > "immediate compaction" is a weaker
> > guarantee
> > > > than
> > > > >>>> > setting
> > > > >>>> > > > any
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > value
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> less
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > than 24 hours. By the definition of "max
> > > > >>>> compaction
> > > > >>>> > lag",
> > > > >>>> > > > we
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > cannot
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> have
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > zero lag. So I use 0 to indicate
> "disable".
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 8:34 AM Colin
> > McCabe <
> > > > >>>> > > > > > cmccabe@apache.org
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, at 22:11, Brett
> Rann
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > That's a fair point. We should make
> > 0 =
> > > > >>>> > disable, to
> > > > >>>> > > > be
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> consistent
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > with
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > the other settings.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -1 is used elsewhere for disable and
> > when
> > > > >>>> seeing
> > > > >>>> > it
> > > > >>>> > > > in a
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > config
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> it's
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > clear
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > that it's a special meaning. 0
> doesn't
> > > have
> > > > >>>> to
> > > > >>>> > mean
> > > > >>>> > > > > > instant,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > it
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> just
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > means
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > as quickly as possible. I don't
> think 0
> > > is
> > > > >>>> > intuitive
> > > > >>>> > > > for
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > disabled
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> and
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > it
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > will be confusing. I wasn't aware
> > > > segment.ms=0
> > > > >>>> ==
> > > > >>>> > > > > > disabled,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > but I
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > think
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > that is also unintuitive.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > I think there is an argument for
> keeping
> > > > these
> > > > >>>> two
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > configurations
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > consistent, since they are so similar.
> I
> > > > agree
> > > > >>>> that
> > > > >>>> > 0
> > > > >>>> > > > was an
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > unfortunate
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > choice.,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > best,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Colin
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 11:38 AM Colin
> > > > McCabe
> > > > >>>> <
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > cmccabe@apache.org>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, at 17:47,
> > xiongqi
> > > wu
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Colin,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thank you for comments.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > see my inline reply below.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Xiongqi (Wesley) Wu
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 5:24 PM
> > Colin
> > > > >>>> McCabe <
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> cmccabe@apache.org>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi Xiongqi,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks for this KIP.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The name seems a bit ambiguous.
> > Our
> > > > >>>> > compaction
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > policies
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > are
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > already
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > time-based, after all. It seems
> > > like
> > > > >>>> this
> > > > >>>> > > > change is
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > focused
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > around
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > adding
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > a “max.compaction.lag.ms."
> > Perhaps
> > > > >>>> the KIP
> > > > >>>> > > > title
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > should
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > something
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > like "add maximum compaction
> lag
> > > > time"?
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ==========> sure. I will change
> > the
> > > > >>>> title.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The active segment is forced to
> > > roll
> > > > >>>> when
> > > > >>>> > > > either "
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > max.compaction.lag.ms"
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > or "segment.ms" (log.roll.ms
> > and
> > > > >>>> > > > log.roll.hours)
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > has
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > reached.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > If the max.compaction.lag.ms
> is
> > > low,
> > > > >>>> it
> > > > >>>> > seems
> > > > >>>> > > > like
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > segments
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > will
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > be
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > rolled very frequently. This
> can
> > > be a
> > > > >>>> > source of
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > problems
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > cluster,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > since creating many different
> > small
> > > > log
> > > > >>>> > segments
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > consumes
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > huge
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > amount of
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > cluster resources. Therefore, I
> > > would
> > > > >>>> > suggest
> > > > >>>> > > > > > adding a
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > broker-level
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > configuration which allows us
> to
> > > set
> > > > a
> > > > >>>> > minimum
> > > > >>>> > > > value
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > for
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > max.compaction.lag.ms. If we
> let
> > > > >>>> users set
> > > > >>>> > it
> > > > >>>> > > > on a
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> per-topic
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > basis,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > someone could set a value of 1
> ms
> > > or
> > > > >>>> > something,
> > > > >>>> > > > and
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > cause
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > chaos.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > =========> this applies to
> > > > segment.ms
> > > > >>>> as
> > > > >>>> > well.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > Today
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > users
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> can
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > set "
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > segment.ms" to a very low value,
> > and
> > > > >>>> cause a
> > > > >>>> > > > frequent
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> rolling of
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > active
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > segments.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Xiongqi,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I agree that this is an existing
> > > problem
> > > > >>>> with
> > > > >>>> > > > > > segment.ms.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> However,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > that
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > doesn't mean that we shouldn't fix
> > it.
> > > As
> > > > >>>> you
> > > > >>>> > noted,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > there
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > will
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> be
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > more
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > interest in these topic-level
> > retention
> > > > >>>> > settings as
> > > > >>>> > > > a
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > result
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > GDPR.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > It
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > seems likely that pre-existing
> > problems
> > > > >>>> will
> > > > >>>> > cause
> > > > >>>> > > > more
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > trouble.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The fix seems relatively
> > > straightforward
> > > > >>>> here --
> > > > >>>> > > > add a
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> broker-level
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > minimum segment.ms that overrides
> > > > >>>> per-topic
> > > > >>>> > > > minimums.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > We
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > can
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> also
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > fail
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > with a helpful error message when
> > > someone
> > > > >>>> > attempts
> > > > >>>> > > > to
> > > > >>>> > > > > > set
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > an
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > invalid
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > configuration.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > In my option, the minimum of "
> > > > >>>> > > > max.compaction.lag.ms"
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > should
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> be
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > based on the minimum of "
> > segment.ms
> > > ".
> > > > >>>> Since
> > > > >>>> > > > today the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> minimum of
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > segment.ms
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > is 1, "max.compaction.lag.ms"
> also
> > > > >>>> starts
> > > > >>>> > with
> > > > >>>> > > > 1. "0"
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > means
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > disable. I
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > can use -1 as disable, but it is
> > hard
> > > > to
> > > > >>>> > define
> > > > >>>> > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > meaning
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> of 0
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > because
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > we
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > cannot just roll the active
> segment
> > > > >>>> > immediately.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > That's a fair point. We should make
> > 0 =
> > > > >>>> > disable, to
> > > > >>>> > > > be
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> consistent
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > with
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > other settings.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > best,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Colin
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -- Note that an alternative
> > > > >>>> configuration
> > > > >>>> > is to
> > > > >>>> > > > use
> > > > >>>> > > > > > -1
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > as
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > "disabled"
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > and
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 0
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > as "immediate compaction".
> > > Because
> > > > >>>> > compaction
> > > > >>>> > > > lag
> > > > >>>> > > > > > is
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > still
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > determined
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > based on min.compaction.lag
> and
> > > how
> > > > >>>> long
> > > > >>>> > to
> > > > >>>> > > > roll
> > > > >>>> > > > > > an
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > active
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > segment,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > actual lag for compaction is
> > > > >>>> undetermined
> > > > >>>> > if
> > > > >>>> > > > we
> > > > >>>> > > > > > use
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > "0".
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> On
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > other
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > hand, we can already set
> > > > >>>> > > > > > "min.cleanable.dirty.ratio"
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > to
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > achieve
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > the
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > same
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > goal. So here we choose "0"
> as
> > > > >>>> "disabled".
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I would prefer -1 to be the
> > invalid
> > > > >>>> setting.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > Treating
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > 0
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > differently
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > than
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 1 seems strange to me.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > =====> see my previous
> comment, I
> > > am
> > > > >>>> not
> > > > >>>> > > > strongly
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > against,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> but
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > 0
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > is
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > not a
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > valid configuration in my option.
> > So
> > > I
> > > > >>>> use
> > > > >>>> > "0" as
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > disabled
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> state.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > best,
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Colin
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, at 15:04,
> > > > xiongqi
> > > > >>>> wu
> > > > >>>> > wrote:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Let's VOTE for this KIP.
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > KIP:
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > <
> > > > >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> <
> > > > >>>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > <
> > > > >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> >>>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > <
> > > > >>>> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > <
> > > > >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> <
> > > > >>>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > <
> > > > >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> >>>>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <
> > > > >>>> > > > > > >
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > <
> > > > >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
> > > > >>>> > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354>>>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >> <
> > > > >>>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-354
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> > > > %3A+Time-based+log+compaction+policy
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> > > > >>>> https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/5611
> > > > >>>> > <https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/5611>
> > > > >>>> > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/5611
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