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From Dong Lin <lindon...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-204 : adding records deletion operation to the new Admin Client API
Date Tue, 17 Oct 2017 23:27:30 GMT
Hey Colin,

I have also thought about deleteRecordsBeforeOffset so that we can keep the
name consistent with the existing API in the Scala AdminClient. But then I
think it may be better to be able to specify in DeleteRecordsOptions
whether the deletion is before/after timestamp or offset. By doing this we
have one API rather than four API in Java AdminClient going forward. What
do you think?

Thanks,
Dong

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Colin McCabe <cmccabe@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Paolo,
>
> This is a nice improvement.
>
> I agree that the discussion of creating a DeleteTopicPolicy can wait
> until later.  Perhaps we can do it in a follow-on KIP.  However, we do
> need to specify what ACL permissions are needed to invoke this API.
> That should be in the JavaDoc comments as well.  Based on the previous
> discussion, I am assuming that this means DELETE on the TOPIC resource?
> Can you add this to the KIP?
>
> Right now you have the signature:
> > DeleteRecordsResult deleteRecords(Map<TopicPartition, Long>
> partitionsAndOffsets)
>
> Since this function is all about deleting records that come before a
> certain offset, how about calling it deleteRecordsBeforeOffset?  That
> way, if we come up with another way of deleting records in the future
> (such as a timestamp or transaction-based way) it will not be confusing.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017, at 20:50, Becket Qin wrote:
> > Hi Paolo,
> >
> > Thanks for the KIP and sorry for being late on the thread. I am wondering
> > what is the KafkaFuture<Long> returned by all() call? Should it be a
> > Map<TopicPartition, Long> instead?
>
> Good point.
>
> cheers,
> Colin
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jiangjie (Becket) QIn
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Paolo Patierno <ppatierno@live.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >
> > > maybe we want to start without the delete records policy for now
> waiting
> > > for a real needs. So I'm removing it from the KIP.
> > >
> > > I hope for more comments on this KIP-204 so that we can start a vote on
> > > Monday.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > Paolo Patierno
> > > Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
> > > Microsoft MVP on Azure & IoT
> > > Microsoft Azure Advisor
> > >
> > > Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
> > > Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
> > > Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Paolo Patierno <ppatierno@live.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 5:56 AM
> > > To: dev@kafka.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-204 : adding records deletion operation to
> the
> > > new Admin Client API
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >
> > > I have just updated the KIP-204 description with the new
> > > TopicDeletionPolicy suggested by the KIP-201.
> > >
> > >
> > > Paolo Patierno
> > > Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
> > > Microsoft MVP on Azure & IoT
> > > Microsoft Azure Advisor
> > >
> > > Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
> > > Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
> > > Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Paolo Patierno <ppatierno@live.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 4:57 PM
> > > To: dev@kafka.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-204 : adding records deletion operation to
> the
> > > new Admin Client API
> > >
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > as I said in the KIP-201 discussion I'm ok with having a unique
> > > DeleteTopicPolicy but then it could be useful having more information
> then
> > > just the topic name; partitions and offset for messages deletion could
> be
> > > useful for a fine grained use cases.
> > >
> > >
> > > Paolo Patierno
> > > Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
> > > Microsoft MVP on Azure & IoT
> > > Microsoft Azure Advisor
> > >
> > > Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
> > > Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
> > > Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Tom Bentley <t.j.bentley@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 4:32 PM
> > > To: dev@kafka.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-204 : adding records deletion operation to
> the
> > > new Admin Client API
> > >
> > > Hi Paolo,
> > >
> > > I guess a RecordDeletionPolicy should work at the partition level,
> whereas
> > > the TopicDeletionPolicy should work at the topic level. But then we run
> > > into a similar situation as described in the motivation for KIP-201,
> where
> > > the administrator might have to write+configure two policies in order
> to
> > > express their intended rules. For example, it's no good preventing
> people
> > > from deleting topics if they can delete all the messages in those
> topics,
> > > or vice versa.
> > >
> > > On that reasoning, perhaps there should be a single policy interface
> > > covering topic deletion and message deletion. Alternatively, the topic
> > > deletion API could also invoke the record deletion policy (before the
> topic
> > > deletion policy I mean). But the former would be more consistent with
> > > what's proposed in KIP-201.
> > >
> > > Wdyt? I can add this to KIP-201 if you want.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 26 September 2017 at 17:01, Paolo Patierno <ppatierno@live.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Tom,
> > > >
> > > > I think that we could live with the current authorizer based on
> delete
> > > > topic (for both, deleting messages and topic as a whole) but then the
> > > > RecordsDeletePolicy could be even more fine grained giving the
> > > possibility
> > > > to avoid deleting messages for specific partitions (inside the
> topic) and
> > > > starting from a specific offset.
> > > >
> > > > I could think on some users solutions where they know exactly what
> the
> > > > partitions means inside of a specific topic (because they are using a
> > > > custom partitioner on the producer side) so they know what kind of
> > > messages
> > > > are inside a partition allowing to delete them but not the other.
> > > >
> > > > In such a policy a user could also check the timestamp related to the
> > > > offset for allowing or not deletion on time base.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wdyt ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Paolo Patierno
> > > > Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
> > > > Microsoft MVP on Azure & IoT
> > > > Microsoft Azure Advisor
> > > >
> > > > Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
> > > > Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
> > > > Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Tom Bentley <t.j.bentley@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 2:55 PM
> > > > To: dev@kafka.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-204 : adding records deletion operation
> to the
> > > > new Admin Client API
> > > >
> > > > Hi Edoardo and Paolo,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 26 September 2017 at 14:10, Paolo Patierno <ppatierno@live.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What could be useful use cases for having a RecordsDeletePolicy ?
> > > Records
> > > > > can't be deleted for a topic name ? Starting from a specific
> offset ?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I can imagine some users wanting to prohibit using this API
> completely.
> > > > Maybe others divide up the topic namespace according to some scheme,
> and
> > > so
> > > > it would be allowed for some topics, but not for others based on the
> > > name.
> > > > Both these could be done using authz, but would be much simpler to
> > > express
> > > > using a policy.
> > > >
> > > > Since both deleting messages and deleting topics are authorized using
> > > > delete operation on the topic, using policies it would be possible to
> > > allow
> > > > deleting messages from a topic, but not deleting the topic itself.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 26 September 2017 at 15:27, Edoardo Comar <ECOMAR@uk.ibm.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Our KIP-170 did indeed suggest a TopicDeletePolicy - but, as said,
> for
> > > > our
> > > > > intent an Authorizer implementation will be usable instead,
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I guess authorization in the most general sense encompass es both the
> > > > ACL-based authorization inherent in Authorizer and the various
> > > > operation-specific *Policies. But they're not the same. The Policies
> are
> > > > about deciding on *what* is requested, and the Authorizer is about
> > > making a
> > > > decision purely on *who* is making the request. It's quite
> legitimate to
> > > > want to use both, or just one or the other.
> > > >
> > >
>

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