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From Murray Altheim <murra...@altheim.com>
Subject Re: Localization
Date Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:07:17 GMT
Christophe Dupriez wrote:
> Beware that PageName is language dependent...

Hi Christophe,

Yes, I think we're all well aware of that issue, hence the idea
of turning it into a property rather than a address. It is really
a name, not an address, which is why there's long been a problem
in the wiki community with WikiNames as identifiers. The many-to-
many issue, etc.

> Personnaly, I would view language as a "NameSpace" (very useful feature of JSPWiki).

Yes, certainly.

> What is interesting is that navigation betweend linguistic versions shows interesting
features that would be useful for general page interlinking.
> 
> When one page is said to be a "translation" of another, then the reversal could be judged
to be automatically true (not in all applications but in "Wikipedia like" applications).
> It is like a "see also" relation: when A-->see also-->B, most applications automatically
generate B-->see also-->A (commutativity)
> 
> Futhermore, one could see transitivity as a need: if A is a translation of B and B is
a translation of C, then A is a translation of C.
> 
> One could imagine to extend existing functionnalities like "ReferringPages" to add "ReferredToPages"
but this has to be constrained to one link TYPE (like "translation" or "see also": TYPE does
not exist in a regular Wiki ! Help Makna ?). I am wondering if the very useful "InterWiki"
links could not be used to specify a link TYPE.
> 
> We could then have:
> 
> Page "En.Bees" containing " ... [translated:Fr.Abeilles] ... [seealso:En.Wasps] ... "
> Page "Fr.Abeilles" containing " ... [translated:Pl.Pszczoła] ... "
> 
> Then most plugins working on relations could take into account a link TYPE. An a special
plugin could list transitive relations of a given type and/or automatically consider a relation
as being reflexive.
> 
> Page "En.Bees" could then list the translations "Fr.Abeilles" and "Pl.Pszczoła" and
the "see also" En.Wasps
> Page "En.Wasps" could then list the "see also" En.Bees
> Page "Fr.Abeilles"  could then list the translations "En.Bees" and "Pl.Pszczoła"
> Page "Pl.Pszczoła"  could then list the translations "En.Bees" and "Fr.Abeilles"
> 
> I have a very big dictionnary of litterary devices (about 8 thousands of them: http://www.cafe.edu/cle/index.html)
that I converted to OWL but that I want to put in JSPWiki. As JSPWiki is, I think it will
fit (I was first envisaging Makna) but with Relation TYPES it could be better...
> I document the export/import process (as it goes) for this: http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/ImportExportMigration

I would strongly recommend not using OWL for this, as it is based on
a mathematical model that is completely unsuitable for relations of
natural language (i.e., OWL is based on Description Logics, which are
a function of logic, not linguistics). A more suitable ontology for
relating terms is the one designed specifically for that purpose,
z39.19, the standard for thesauri. There you'll find the relationship
types you're looking for, and the z39.19 relations are supported by
a variety of open source and commercial software.

For example, the core (upper) ontology of my JSPWiki extensions are
largely based on z39.19 relation types, e.g., with a subject-predicate
-object model:

    [{Assert [WikiPage1] [IsBroaderThan] [WikiPage2] }]

And yes, this is a means by which I am doing typed linking between
pages.

 From your examples above I'm rather guessing you may be familiar with
z39.19 already, but I thought I'd mention it. See also:

    ANSI/NISO Z39.19 -2005 Guidelines for the Construction, Format,
    and Management of Monolingual Controlled Vocabularies
    http://www.niso.org/standards/standard_detail.cfm?std_id=814

    Z39.19 PDF Download
    http://www.niso.org/standards/resources/Z39-19.html
    http://www.niso.org/standards/resources/Z39-19-2005.pdf (PDF)

There's also a standard for multilingual thesauri but it's really
not necessary for my purposes.

Murray

...........................................................................
Murray Altheim <murray07 at altheim.com>                           ===  = =
http://www.altheim.com/murray/                                     = =  ===
SGML Grease Monkey, Banjo Player, Wantanabe Zen Monk               = =  = =

       Boundless wind and moon - the eye within eyes,
       Inexhaustible heaven and earth - the light beyond light,
       The willow dark, the flower bright - ten thousand houses,
       Knock at any door - there's one who will respond.
                                       -- The Blue Cliff Record

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