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From sebb <>
Subject Re: Coordinated Omission - detection and reporting ONLY
Date Sat, 19 Oct 2013 11:45:01 GMT
On 19 October 2013 02:17, Gil Tene <> wrote:
>> [Trying again - please do not hijack this thread.]
>> The Constant Throughput Timer (CTT) calculates the desired wait time,
>> and if this is less than zero - i.e. a sample should already have been
>> generated - it could trigger the creation of a failed Assertion (or similar)
>> showing the time difference.

N.B.     ^^^^^^^^^^^

>> Would this be sufficient to detect all CO occurrences?
> Two issues:
> 1. It would detect that CO probably happened, but not how much of it happened, Missing
1msec or 1 minute will look the same.

Huh? The time difference would be reported - is that not enough?

> 2. It would only detect CO in test plans that include an actual CTT (Constant Throughput
Timer). It won't work for other timers, or when no timers are used

Indeed, but in such cases is there any indication of the expected
transaction rate?

>> If not, what other metric needs to be checked?
> There are various things you can look for.
> Our OutlierCorrector work includes a pretty elaborate CO detector. It sits either inline
on the listener notification stream, or parses the log file. The detector identifies sampler
patterns, establishes expected interval between patterns, and detects when the actual interval
falls far above the expected interval. This is a code change to JMeter, but a pretty localized

AIUI CO happens when the sample takes much longer than usual, thus
(potentially) delaying any subseqent samples.
Overlong samples can already be detected using a Delay Assertion.

>> Even if it is not the only possible cause, would it be useful as a
>> starting point?
> Yes. As a warning flag saying "throw away these test results".

The results are not necessarily useless; at the very least they will
show the load at which the system is starting to slow down.

>> I am assuming that the CTT is the primary means of controlling the
>> sample request rate.
> Unfortunately many test scenarios I've seen use other means. Many people use other timers
or other means for think time emulation.

The CTT is not intended for think time emulation. It is intended to
ensure a specific transaction rate.

Think time obviously affects the transaction rate, but is not the sole

>> If there are other elements that are commonly used to control the
>> rate, please note them here.
>> N.B: this thread is only for discussion of how to detect CO and how to
>> report it.
> Reporting the existence of CO is an interesting starting point. But the only right way
to deal with such a report showing the existence of CO (with no magnitude or other metrics)
is to say " I guess the data I got is complete crap, so all the stats and graphs I'm seeing
mean nothing".

I disagree that the output is useless.

The delays are reported, so one can see how badly the test was
affected. If the delays are all small, then a slight adjustment of the
thread count and transaction rate should eliminate them.

Only if the delays are large are the results less meaningful, though
they can still show the base load at which the server starts to slow

> If you can report "how much" CO you saw,

As I wrote originally, the CTT would report the time diffence (i.e. delay).

> it may help a bit in determining how bad the data is, and how the stats should be treated
by the reader. E.g. if you know that CO totaling some amount of time X in a test of length
Y had occured, then you know that any percentile above (100 * (1-X)/Y) is completely bogus,
and should be assumed to be equal to the experienced max value. You can also take the approach
that the the rest of the percentiles should be shifted down by at least  (100 * X / Y). e.g.
If you had CO that covered only 0.01% of the total test time, that would be relatively good


> But if you had CO covering 5% of the test time, your measured 99%'ile is actually the
94%'ile]. Averages are unfortunately anyone's guess when CO is in play and not actually corrected
> Once you detect both the existence and the magnitude of CO, correcting for it is actually
pretty easy. The detection of "how much" is the semi-hard part.

Detecting the delay using the CTT is trivial; it already has to
calculate it to decide how long to wait. A negative wait is obviously
a missed start time.
Or am I missing something here?

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