Mailing-List: contact taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Sender: glenn@zathras.earthdome.org
Message-ID: <3A2BAAA4.2751F3F6@voyager.apg.more.net>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:31:00 -0600
From: Glenn Nielsen <glenn@voyager.apg.more.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: taglibs-dev@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: Discussion Initiation: Incorporation of custom tag libraries into
 authoring tools.
References: <AHECJODEJHEDHKHAGPFACEHICBAA.keytonw@bellsouth.net>
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I know of two products right now that support JSP 1.1 tag libraries.

JRun Studio, which has some vendor specific stuff in it.  It doesn't
allow you to import tag libraries directly, they have to be in a
special JRun format to import.  A big limitation in my opinion.
It also supports execution and debug of JSP pages using JRun.
It does not support graphical HTML/JSP editing very well.

NetBeans, it is a complete Java IDE.  The 3.1 beta of NetBeans
supports import of tag libraries.  Importing the tag library allows
you to use pop up tag completion in the JSP Editor.  It incorporates
Tomcat for executing/debugging JSP pages.  For web publishers this
tool could be a bit overwhelming since it is designed for developing
Java not publishing HTML.  There is no graphical HTML/JSP editing,
editing is done in a text editor.

http://www.netbeans.org/

IMHO, I wouldn't recommend either of these products for use by
a web publisher (non programmer).

The TLD is designed to allow publishing tools to import information
about custom JSP tag libraries.  The JSP 1.2 spec adds additional 
support for web publishing tools to the tag lib descriptor (TLD) file.

There are several other tools that support JSP 1.0 but have no support
for JSP 1.1 tag libraries yet.  IBM WebSphere Studio and MacroMedia 
DrumBeat/UltraDev.

Regards,

Glenn

"A. Keyton Weissinger" wrote:
> 
> Hi Group.
> 
> I am beginning work in earnest on my book. Several of you have indicated
> some very useful additions to my planned content. THANK YOU!
> 
> Although I certainly have many dev-related technical things which I'd like
> to discuss, I'd like to start my entry as a participant in this list on a
> more philosophical note. I'd like to start a discussion on how we as taglib
> developers can make it easier to use taglibs, i.e. incorporation of tag
> libraries into authoring tools.
> 
> Few want to address it because it's sticky and pretty non-glamorous, but it
> is bigtime important. It's my understanding that Macromedia has made some
> mention of putting this feature (the ability to "hook" in tag libraries)
> into Dreamweaver. Anyone have any details? What about other design/layout
> tools (Homesite, FrontPage (doubt it), etc)? This seems like a hugely
> important part of getting tag libraries into the hands of those people from
> which we all talk about "hiding complexity." It would seem to me that if we
> really want taglibs to "take off" that what we want is for page designers
> (i.e. HTML/XHTML folks not java/JSP programmers) to think "I need a
> german-based first name field. Oh yeah, I just have to press CTRL+whatever
> and up pops the attributes for a <formsutil:firstName/> tag." As simple as
> placing a <INPUT> tag on the page.
> 
> As we all know, approachability is the key to this topic's growth in
> importance. Incorporation into authoring tools is a biggie. We (and I will
> definitely help on this) need to "lobby" to make this "cake" for authoring
> tools vendors. If these taglibs do not become easier to incorporate into the
> day-to-day development tasks of the average web page developer, taglibs'
> success going forward will be more difficult, relying solely on its use by
> junior java developers that have been relegated to the JSP end of the
> project because the EJBs are, at least currently, not within their skillset.
> 
> Now don't anyone get upset. I freely admit that I am making HUGE, SWEEPING
> generalizations here. I know that there are awesome EJB developers that love
> to code JSP. There are HTML gods that "drop down" to code stuff. But most
> shops have programmers and designers. And even though JSP has made the
> separation of functions between these two groups simpler, the efficient
> incorporation of taglibs into designer tools would make it MUCH simpler
> still.
> 
> Along these same lines, help systems is a whole 'nother topic along these
> lines. Yes, we have this incredible JavaDoc system that programmers can use
> to see how tags are put together, but joe-schmoe web page designer doesn't
> care. He wants easy to use (preferably pop-up) help on how to USE the
> things. How best to do this? It's up to us as tag library developers to
> provide this help. How to make the incorporation of this help and the tag
> libraries themselves easy?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Keyton

-- 
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Glenn Nielsen             glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder    |
MOREnet System Programming               |  * if iz ina coment.      |
Missouri Research and Education Network  |  */                       |
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