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From "Mark F. Murphy" <ma...@tyrell.com>
Subject Re: Yow... No More Java 1.1 Support?
Date Thu, 10 May 2001 20:47:37 GMT
At 1:09 PM -0700 5/10/01, Jon Stevens wrote:
>  > For example, some software written in Java might have dependencies on
>>  a particular JDK and not be certified to work in newer JDKs.
>Right...and my point is that you have had *years* to test things.

I'm *not* talking about *my* code but code from a vendor that is not 
certified nor runs under JDK greater than 1.1.8... for example.

>  > I'm questioning what is gained by making Jakarta-Ora *not* compatible
>>  with JDK 1.1?
>We can take advantage of JDK 1.2 features.


If there's a compelling feature that 1.2 offers that cannot be done 
otherwise, I understand.

If there's some huge benefit to be gained because of the abstraction, 
I understand.

Simply changing for the sake of changing, I have a more difficult time with.

For example, changing from Vector to ArrayList in Perl5Substitution 
seemed to be changed just because (no offense to the person who made 
the change).

>  > Most C based regex packages are done with just C.
>C != Java

I know that.

My point is (and perhaps I wasn't clear) that I don't see a huge 
benefit in using Java classes which may not gain much (or nothing at 
all) that couldn't be done in the base Java lang... much like the 
original regex packages are done in.

A good example would be the overuse of String in java code.

A very typical mistake by junior java developers which can affect 
memory size, performance, etc.

Just because a class exists in the JDK doesn't mean one should use it.

Careful consideration must be given to the scope of the work being 
done... and what the goal is.

For a Java regex package, my opinion would be that performance is 
important... and compatibility with other regex expressions is high 
on the list (as in the Perl module).

Using the latest and greatest Java classes in JDK X might not be a 
requirement nor needed when analyzing the design.

>  > Haven't you ever run into a deployment situation where you were stuck
>>  with an older version of a dev system or dependent libraries?
>Not with Java. All my JDK 1.1 code instantly worked on JDK 1.2 and 1.3
>without any problems other than maybe a re-compile. Java is great at forward

All my code works like that as well.

But I'm not talking about *my* code.

I'm talking about when one is dependent on other vendor classes or 
environments where going to a newer JDK isn't possible.... yet the 
need to still develop or add code to that environment is a 

Jakarta-Oro is a great tool... I've used it in several projects.

>Let me guess...you also still use Windows 3.1.

No, I don't.

But let me guess... you must be a bit bent out of shape.... or at 
least that's the feeling I'm getting.

Otherwise, I'm at a loss for the negativism in your replies.

>Nearly *every* project within Jakarta now has a dependency on JDK 1.2. Time
>for you to upgrade sir.

I'll repeat... it's not a matter of *my* code needing upgrading.

It's a matter of in a deployment situation being dependent on other 
vendors where the environment cannot change past JDK 1.1.x.

Is jakarta-oro only meant to work/integrate with apache products and 
nothing else?

I hope not.

Perhaps I misunderstand the goals of the jakarta-oro project?


  Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development   <mailto:markm@tyrell.com>
  Tyrell Software Corp                            <http://www.tyrell.com>
  PowerPerl(tm), Add Power To Your Webpage!       <http://www.powerperl.com>
  Families Against Internet Censorship:        http://www.netfamilies.org/

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