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From Geir Magnusson Jr <g...@pobox.com>
Subject Re: [RESULT] Move Velocity to TLP
Date Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:53:23 GMT


Nathan Bubna wrote:
> On 9/22/06, Geir Magnusson Jr <geir@pobox.com> wrote:
>> This vote closed sooner than expected.  I was traveling and there was no
>> stated deadline.
> 
> Aw, c'mon.  It's been in discussion on velocity-dev for over a month,
> and i gave the vote a full week!

Not complaining, just noting why :)

> 
> Still, further votes and discussion are fine with me... :)
> 
>> I'm +1 and -1.
>>
>> I'm +1 as I do think that Velocity as a TLP is not unreasonable.  Not
>> necessary, but not unreasonable.
>>
>> I'm -1 because I'm worried that this is a new kind of umbrella that's
>> planned. Making it a catchall for things that are and use Velocity is
>> going the wrong direction.
> 
> Nothing new about it.  Velocity became just such an umbrella under
> your leading, or am i mistaken about your part in forming DVSL and
> VelocityTools?  :)

Tools was created because we wanted to offer support for struts users,
and struts didn't want it.  We didn't create a replacement for struts.
And yeah, it grew in scope.

DVSL was similar.  Maybe it could have gone into commons, but again, it
was home grown.

And "Billy did it too!" isn't really a good reason to do it :)

> 
> And the idea is not that all Velocity using projects are welcome, but
> that we are free to invite projects that are explicitly built upon or
> for Velocity.  There are big differences between being free to invite
> projects and being a "catchall" and between being a project that uses
> or supports Velocity and one that is explicitly built for or upon
> Velocity.

How do you draw the line?

> 
>> If there are projects that aren't template engines that want to come to
>> Apache, the door is open and they are welcome.
> 
> And template engines are welcome too, right?  The question is whether
> being here would be just about them having the foundation and
> infrastructure support or if there is a community aspect too.  If
> community matters, then it matters where they fit in Apache
> organizationally.  So rather than a blanket statement that any
> Velocity-related projects are welcome or not welcome, i prefer having
> the freedom to individually vet the merits and fit of project
> interested in joining the Velocity TLP.  And you, as a Velocity PMC
> member, would be very, very welcome to join in those discussions and
> decisions.

Sure - I think thought that the project charter should be clearer.

> 
>> But putting anything that uses Velocity into a TLP is like using things
>> that use log4j into the same TLP (which would re-create Jakarta... :)
> 
> Yep, good thing that's not the plan! :)

That's not obvious to me.

geir

> 
>> geir
>>
>>
>> Nathan Bubna wrote:
>> > Looks like the Velocity community is ready to head out on its own...
>> >
>> > +1 votes:
>> >  Nathan Bubna
>> >  Martin van den Bemt
>> >  James Mitchell
>> >  Henri Yandell
>> >  Jorg Schaible
>> >  Henning P. Schmiedehausen
>> >  Will Glass-Husain
>> >  Torsten Curdt
>> >  Rony G. Flatscher
>> >  Jesse Kuhnert
>> >  Dion Gillard
>> >  Daniel Rall
>> >  Matthijs Lambooy
>> >  Niall Pemberton
>> >  Claude Brisson
>> >  Malcolm Edgar
>> >  Christoph Reck
>> >
>> > +0 votes:
>> > -none-
>> >
>> > -1 votes:
>> > -none-
>> >
>> > I'm not sure who's on the PMC or not, but i'm fairly sure most of
>> > those votes are binding. :)
>> >
>> > thanks, everyone!
>> >
>> > On 9/15/06, Nathan Bubna <nbubna@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> The Velocity project has for some time now been making plans for a
>> >> proposal to the board that the Velocity projects leave the Jakarta
>> >> umbrella and become their own top level project.  Martin has asked us
>> >> to hold a vote on the proposal here before he passes it along to the
>> >> board.  So...
>> >>
>> >> The proposal is available for your perusal at:
>> >>     http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/TLPVelocity
>> >>
>> >> For the interested, most of the discussion took place on the following
>> >> thread:
>> >>     http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=115530940100004&r=1&w=2
>> >>
>> >> And the vote happens here:
>> >> [ ] +1 I support the proposal
>> >> [ ] +0 I don't care
>> >> [ ] -1  I'm opposed to the proposal because...
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>>
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>>
> 
> 

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