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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoli...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
Date Wed, 06 Feb 2002 00:41:36 GMT
On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 14:47, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:41, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> > On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 03:14, Peter Donald wrote:
> > > On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> > > > > Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN?
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java
> > > > > proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it would
be
> > > > > standardized?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you looking towards .NET/C# as an alternative but still
> > > > > optimistic about Java?
> > > >
> > > > Heck no.  .NET/c# why would I want to use an even more proprietary
> > > > thing to get back at SUN?  Heck no.
> > >
> > > You sure it is more proprietary? I believe our PMC head actually sits as
> > > head on one of the standardization efforts for C#s core libraries. With
> > > the recent change to BSDL/MIT licensing with one of the opensource
> > > runtimes things are starting to look interesting.
> >
> > Can I run it on Linux?  Will a WORKING non-broken version ever run on
> > Linux.
> 
> yes. Thats its primary target.
> 
> > > *if* there was an open, semi-stable platform then I am sure a fair chunk
> > > of people would flock to it - especially if it is under a nice license
> > > like MIT that both the BSD and GPL people seem to like.
> >
> > BUT THERE WON'T BE! 
> 
> you seem sure of yourself. I think there will be - many of the C people envy 

I don't respond to personal attacks.

> the java platform but few are willing to change languages and throw away 
> years of invested effort. Theres big companies contributing to the opensouece 
> version (which is why it is now MIT licensed).
> 

Right, but what I mean is this:  If you attempt to maintain
compatibility with the MS version then you will always be behind, broken
and stalled, if you don't then why start with what I imagine has baggage
from COM and .NET etc.

> > > If JDK1.5 comes out in time with all its very kool features I think Java
> > > still has a fighting chance ... maybe. If the J2SE was opensourced then
> > > it would almost win by default. However Sun is nowhere near as agile as
> > > MS - still too much of a slow hardware company - so they will almost
> > > certainly fall down in that area.
> >
> > So far I'm unimpressed with what has been added to 1.4 in the period of
> > time its taken.  Mostly "candy" no meat.
> 
> er? Do you know whats in there ? NIO and decent accelerated GUI stuff is 
> enough to make it one of the best releases yet.
> 

So the IO stuff made it?  I heard it was pushed to 1.5!  I've been
running with 1.4 for testing purposes but haven't thoroughly studied
it.  I based my statement on what was SUPPOSED to be included so far as
I know and what was pushed back etc.  The good news is Java Generics got
pushed back to 1.5.  Sun still has time to rethink this crappy cop-out
implementation.  

Couldn't care less about GUI stuff really.

> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> Sorry, I forgot to take my medication today.
> --------------------------------------------
> 
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> 
-- 
www.superlinksoftware.com
www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html 
			- fix java generics!


The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to
vote.
-Ambassador Kosh


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