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From Lee Chalupa <lchal...@seelink.org>
Subject RE: How to write "testsuite server-side fixtures"
Date Sun, 22 Aug 2004 09:42:35 GMT
Ok. First, we need to come up with
a better business model: one that works for you and others like yourself.
What's the long term value of burning your most important people out? If we
can't find a better balance in this "exchange of value" it's just a matter of
time before it's dead.  I'll give this some more thought starting with some
attributes of the typical Cactus user. I for one would
gladly pay some amount of money for responsive and useful support especially
when I'm using the product in my development process.

I'll put off my evaluation of the commercial product I'm looking at and put that
effort into Cactus.

Second, I'll help fix the documentation and work on providing other self help
alternatives. A wiki might be part of the answer, I'd like to do some more
analysis to better understand the problem.

First things first. I need help getting the product installed.  I'll start again
and post my progress and questions on the mailing list.

I look forward to working with you.

lee




Quoting Vincent Massol <vmassol@pivolis.com>:

> Hi Lee,
>
> Thanks for the effort in awakening me. However, I don't think I need a wake
> up call. What I need is help. Help from others. I have been working on
> Cactus for more than 4 years now and I'm also participating to more and more
> other open source products. I have always encouraged very positively any
> help.
>
> If you want to help (or anyone else for that matter), instead of saying how
> to do X, Y, Z, point to where the documentation has flaws (and it has a
> lot). Even better, once you understand how it works, help fix the
> documentation! Do you know how many persons have submitted documentation
> patches over the past 4 years? (I'd say under 10).
>
> What you may not understand is that I don't care if you don't use Cactus.
> It's your choice. If you have found another tool that is better and/or that
> suits what you try to do better, then all the best! I'm not selling
> anything.
>
> I have personally created and used Cactus in the period 1998-2000 and since
> then I have never used it. However, I've tried not to let anyone down and
> I've continued to support it by answering to emails (I'm almost the only one
> doing so BTW), fix bugs, and make some headway (albeit slowly as I have some
> problems in working more than 18 hours per day). Several times I wanted to
> stop but people kept coming and telling me that they liked it. So in
> deference to them, I've continued the work as much as I could.
>
> Whining almost never helps in open source. Helping does. You can help in
> several ways: answer to emails on the mailing list, help improve the
> documentation, fix one of the 30 or so outstanding bugs/feature requests,
> find some persons interested in helping, etc. If at least you were providing
> a solution... And there are solution. One of them that I have been
> contemplating for some time, is to move the Cactus doco to a Wiki so that it
> lowers the bar of improving the documentation. But making the move is a big
> task in itself and so far all the wikis I've seen were less good in feature
> than the current site. Confluence is my current preferred choice but I need
> to find the time to make the move. BTW, if you're interested in helping I
> can give you hints on how to make that move. That would help.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee Chalupa [mailto:lchalupa@seelink.org]
> > Sent: samedi 21 août 2004 17:16
> > To: Cactus Users List
> > Subject: RE: How to write "testsuite server-side fixtures"
> >
> > Vincent:
> >
> > I'm not trying to flame you or your associates Vincent but you need a
> > wakup call
> > when it comes to your documentation and the built-in complexity of your
> > product.  Your current approach just doesn't match your mission statement.
> > Do
> > you really expect new users to spend days of high levels of frustration to
> > get
> > your software installed? I might add that they are frustrating days too.
> > It's
> > ironic that a tool that promotes testing hasn't devised tests that would
> > help a
> > developer know if the software is deployed properly and if not, provide
> > some
> > kind of clue where the problem is.  As an alternative to Cactus, I'm
> > currently
> > evaluating an inexpensive software tool that provides similar
> > functionality to
> > cactus. It wasn't my first choice. I can report that it deployed itself in
> > about 20 minutes start to finish. Done! As for your documentation, I can
> > cite
> > many examples where the vagueness of your directions leaves enough room
> > for
> > interpretation to drive a truck through the holes all the while you state
> > in
> > your messages to users that you need to "follow the instructions exactly":
> > my
> > point is there is no exactly to your documentation.
> >
> >
> > I know you and your associates are working hard and I commend you for your
> > efforts. I have stopped short a number of times of giving you this
> > feedback but
> > in the end I don't think withholding feedback makes anything better.
> > Please
> > try to take my comments in the constructive manner that they were meant.
> >
> > The good news is that there would be a whold bunch more developers using
> > your
> > product if you can find a way to help them get started that doesn't "raise
> > the
> > bar" over their heads.
> >
> > Good Luck.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> > Quoting Vincent Massol <vmassol@pivolis.com>:
> >
> > > Hi Phil,
> > >
> > > The following page
> > > http://jakarta.apache.org/cactus/writing/howto_testcase.html says it all
> > too
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Philemon Siclone [mailto:philemon_siclone@yahoo.fr]
> > > > Sent: mercredi 18 août 2004 14:54
> > > > To: cactus-user@jakarta.apache.org
> > > > Subject: How to write "testsuite server-side fixtures"
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > The title says it all (almost). I'd like to execute some code on the
> > > > server-side before and after a set of (servlet)testcases is run. At
> > the
> > > > moment I have written a (classic junit) testSuite containing the
> > > > servletTestCases, but the fixtures of this testSuite get executed on
> > > > the client-side (obviously).
> > > >
> > > > It seems like a quite simple need but I could not find any answer on
> > > > the cactus-website.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > (and sorry for my bad english)
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > PS: I do not use cactus-ant tasks for tests-execution : my IDE does
> > it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
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> >
> >
> >
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