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From: "Vincent Massol" <vmassol@pivolis.com>
To: "'Cactus Users List'" <cactus-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Subject: Automated cactus generation tool (was RE: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE:
 REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found))
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 21:33:28 +0100
Message-ID: <002401c3b201$0e7b5120$2502a8c0@vma>
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Hi Martin,

Sorry but I don't know what an automated junit generation tool is. Do
you mean a tool that generates skeleton TestCase?

Thanks
-Vincent

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgainty@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 24 November 2003 02:26
> To: Cactus Users List
> Subject: Re: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication
> Failure --> Problem Found)
> 
> On the same note is there a automated cactus generation tool such as
the
> one for junit?
> Thanks,
> Martin
>   >From: "Eric Pugh"
>   >Reply-To:
>   >To: "'Cactus Users List'"
>   >Subject: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication
Failure
> --> Problem Found)
>   >Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:11:10 +0100
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>   >
>   >Just a heads up on Mock objects.. they seem simple, they aren't.
There
> are
>   >a lot of weird subtleness issues with the order of setting up
expected
>   >results. And the concept of using generic objects to record a
series of
>   >expected results, and then verifing the expected results occur with
a
> real
>   >object? Egads..! Cactus has lots of setup issues, that is where
most
>   >bugs/heartache comes from. MockObjects, especially once you get
beyonnd
> the
>   >super simple onces, have a lot of difficult concepts to grok
instead..
>   >
>   >The two technologies are both difficult, simple on the surface, but
> more
>   >complex as you get deeper. Something that may help with learning
cactus
> is
>   >to A) buy the book. b) Start over with much simpler use cases. When
i
>   >tried Cactus the first time, I tried to apply it to a very complex
> database
>   >driven, xml parsing, coffee brewing app! Well, it didn't brew
coffee,
> but
>   >almost. It was very frustrating. So then I went and tried out
cactus
>   >testing with the JNDI code for commons-configuration, and it was
much
>   >simpler.. Contributing that code helped me get a success under my
belt
> and
>   >made getting deeper into cactus much more enjoyable.
>   >
>   >I do think my motto: "Nothing is ever easy..." is very applicable
to
>   >software development..!
>   >
>   >Eric
>   >
>   > > -----Original Message-----
>   > > From: Tarek M. Nabil [mailto:Tarek.Nabil@itworx.com]
>   > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 11:19 AM
>   > > To: Cactus Users List
>   > > Subject: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE:
>   > > Authentication Failure
>   > > --> Problem Found)
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > Vincent,
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > AFAIK, there are not many known bugs. 99.99% of the time it
>   > > is an error
>   > > from its users. J2EE stuff is complex.
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > Maybe that's because there are a lot of subtle things that
>   > > you need to do to get it to work, and they're never mentioned
>   > > in the documentation.
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > There are other ways to pay back apart from money, like
>   > > giving your time to help
>   > > the others and contributing. I can tell you that if you're
> recognized
>   > > for doing this others will more likely help you out. That's how
> things
>   > > work in life. It's also true for open source.
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > That's easier said than done. How can you contribute to
>   > > something you can't understand? If you have a problem and you
>   > > never find out how to solve it, what do you have to contribute?
>   > >
>   > > Anyway, thanks to everyone. And, BTW, mock objects are my
>   > > next trial, so wish me luck.
>   > >
>   > > Thanks,
>   > > Tarek Nabil
>   > >
>   > > -----Original Message-----
>   > > From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vmassol@pivolis.com]
>   > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:06 PM
>   > > To: 'Cactus Users List'
>   > > Subject: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication
>   > > Failure -->
>   > > Problem Found)
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > > -----Original Message-----
>   > > > From: Tarek M. Nabil [mailto:Tarek.Nabil@itworx.com]
>   > > > Sent: 23 November 2003 10:22
>   > > > To: Cactus Users List
>   > > > Subject: RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem
Found
>   > > >
>   > > > Hi Andrew,
>   > > >
>   > > > Thanks for your support. I hope that you and everyone else
will
> have
>   > > > better luck with your efforts. As for me, I've decided to drop
the
>   > > whole
>   > > > Cactus idea. The problem I described below took me several
days to
>   > > > determine the root cause and until now, I haven't been able to
> solve
>   > > it.
>   > > > Now, that I'm even faced with more problems writing trivial
>   > > tests, and
>   > > my
>   > > > questions are not being answered by anyone, it seems that the
> whole
>   > > thing
>   > > > is losing its meaning. This is supposed to increase
>   > > productivity, not
>   > > > hinder it.
>   > > >
>   > > > Maybe in the future, when the framework is less buggy and
there
> are
>   > > more
>   > > > developers dedicated to support, maybe then I will try again.
>   > >
>   > > AFAIK, there are not many known bugs. 99.99% of the time it
>   > > is an error
>   > > from its users. J2EE stuff is complex.
>   > >
>   > > >
>   > > > Before I unsubscribe from this list, I just want to say that I
> still
>   > > > believe in the open source model. But open source projects
>   > > need a lot
>   > > of
>   > > > effort before they're embraced by the developer community.
>   > >
>   > > *You* are the open source, so it's only as good as you can make
it.
>   > > There's no one paid to support you, Tarek. We're all busy
>   > > working on our
>   > > day work and we're only developing/supporting at night time,
>   > > during our
>   > > free time.
>   > >
>   > > That said, nobody is preventing your from hiring support
services to
>   > > help you out. AFAIK, you haven't approached anybody for that.
>   > > There are
>   > > other ways to pay back apart from money, like giving your time
to
> help
>   > > the others and contributing. I can tell you that if you're
> recognized
>   > > for doing this others will more likely help you out. That's how
> things
>   > > work in life. It's also true for open source.
>   > >
>   > > > The most
>   > > > important of these efforts is support to the community
>   > > through mailing
>   > > > lists like this. Unfortunately, this is not the case here.
>   > >
>   > > Feel free to come back when you've something to contribute.
>   > >
>   > > Thanks and good luck
>   > > -Vincent
>   > >
>   > > PS: If you don't want to use Cactus, the other alternative you
> should
>   > > consider is using mock objects.
>   > >
>   > > [snip]
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
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