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From "Martin Gainty" <mgai...@hotmail.com>
Subject Re: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found)
Date Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:26:20 GMT
On the same note is there a automated cactus generation tool such as the one for junit?
Thanks,
Martin
  >From: "Eric Pugh" 
  >Reply-To: 
  >To: "'Cactus Users List'" 
  >Subject: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem
Found) 
  >Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:11:10 +0100 
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  > 
  >Just a heads up on Mock objects.. they seem simple, they aren't. There are 
  >a lot of weird subtleness issues with the order of setting up expected 
  >results. And the concept of using generic objects to record a series of 
  >expected results, and then verifing the expected results occur with a real 
  >object? Egads..! Cactus has lots of setup issues, that is where most 
  >bugs/heartache comes from. MockObjects, especially once you get beyonnd the 
  >super simple onces, have a lot of difficult concepts to grok instead.. 
  > 
  >The two technologies are both difficult, simple on the surface, but more 
  >complex as you get deeper. Something that may help with learning cactus is 
  >to A) buy the book. b) Start over with much simpler use cases. When i 
  >tried Cactus the first time, I tried to apply it to a very complex database 
  >driven, xml parsing, coffee brewing app! Well, it didn't brew coffee, but 
  >almost. It was very frustrating. So then I went and tried out cactus 
  >testing with the JNDI code for commons-configuration, and it was much 
  >simpler.. Contributing that code helped me get a success under my belt and 
  >made getting deeper into cactus much more enjoyable. 
  > 
  >I do think my motto: "Nothing is ever easy..." is very applicable to 
  >software development..! 
  > 
  >Eric 
  > 
  > > -----Original Message----- 
  > > From: Tarek M. Nabil [mailto:Tarek.Nabil@itworx.com] 
  > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 11:19 AM 
  > > To: Cactus Users List 
  > > Subject: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: 
  > > Authentication Failure 
  > > --> Problem Found) 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > Vincent, 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > AFAIK, there are not many known bugs. 99.99% of the time it 
  > > is an error 
  > > from its users. J2EE stuff is complex. 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > Maybe that's because there are a lot of subtle things that 
  > > you need to do to get it to work, and they're never mentioned 
  > > in the documentation. 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > There are other ways to pay back apart from money, like 
  > > giving your time to help 
  > > the others and contributing. I can tell you that if you're recognized 
  > > for doing this others will more likely help you out. That's how things 
  > > work in life. It's also true for open source. 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > That's easier said than done. How can you contribute to 
  > > something you can't understand? If you have a problem and you 
  > > never find out how to solve it, what do you have to contribute? 
  > > 
  > > Anyway, thanks to everyone. And, BTW, mock objects are my 
  > > next trial, so wish me luck. 
  > > 
  > > Thanks, 
  > > Tarek Nabil 
  > > 
  > > -----Original Message----- 
  > > From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vmassol@pivolis.com] 
  > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:06 PM 
  > > To: 'Cactus Users List' 
  > > Subject: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication 
  > > Failure --> 
  > > Problem Found) 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > > -----Original Message----- 
  > > > From: Tarek M. Nabil [mailto:Tarek.Nabil@itworx.com] 
  > > > Sent: 23 November 2003 10:22 
  > > > To: Cactus Users List 
  > > > Subject: RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found 
  > > > 
  > > > Hi Andrew, 
  > > > 
  > > > Thanks for your support. I hope that you and everyone else will have 
  > > > better luck with your efforts. As for me, I've decided to drop the 
  > > whole 
  > > > Cactus idea. The problem I described below took me several days to 
  > > > determine the root cause and until now, I haven't been able to solve 
  > > it. 
  > > > Now, that I'm even faced with more problems writing trivial 
  > > tests, and 
  > > my 
  > > > questions are not being answered by anyone, it seems that the whole 
  > > thing 
  > > > is losing its meaning. This is supposed to increase 
  > > productivity, not 
  > > > hinder it. 
  > > > 
  > > > Maybe in the future, when the framework is less buggy and there are 
  > > more 
  > > > developers dedicated to support, maybe then I will try again. 
  > > 
  > > AFAIK, there are not many known bugs. 99.99% of the time it 
  > > is an error 
  > > from its users. J2EE stuff is complex. 
  > > 
  > > > 
  > > > Before I unsubscribe from this list, I just want to say that I still 
  > > > believe in the open source model. But open source projects 
  > > need a lot 
  > > of 
  > > > effort before they're embraced by the developer community. 
  > > 
  > > *You* are the open source, so it's only as good as you can make it. 
  > > There's no one paid to support you, Tarek. We're all busy 
  > > working on our 
  > > day work and we're only developing/supporting at night time, 
  > > during our 
  > > free time. 
  > > 
  > > That said, nobody is preventing your from hiring support services to 
  > > help you out. AFAIK, you haven't approached anybody for that. 
  > > There are 
  > > other ways to pay back apart from money, like giving your time to help 
  > > the others and contributing. I can tell you that if you're recognized 
  > > for doing this others will more likely help you out. That's how things 
  > > work in life. It's also true for open source. 
  > > 
  > > > The most 
  > > > important of these efforts is support to the community 
  > > through mailing 
  > > > lists like this. Unfortunately, this is not the case here. 
  > > 
  > > Feel free to come back when you've something to contribute. 
  > > 
  > > Thanks and good luck 
  > > -Vincent 
  > > 
  > > PS: If you don't want to use Cactus, the other alternative you should 
  > > consider is using mock objects. 
  > > 
  > > [snip] 
  > > 
  > > 
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