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From "Vincent Massol" <vmas...@pivolis.com>
Subject RE: Automated cactus generation tool (was RE: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found))
Date Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:01 GMT
Martin,

We're not talking about the same thing I guess. Are you talking about
data-driven testing? I'm asking because a generator is dumb and *cannot*
generate test cases for you. It can only generate some skeleton (and
what I was telling you is that the skeleton is light).

Thanks
-Vincent

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgainty@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 24 November 2003 20:01
> To: Cactus Users List
> Cc: Mark.Lybarger@CBC-Companies.com
> Subject: Re: Automated cactus generation tool (was RE: RE: Good bye
Tarek
> (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found))
> 
> Vincent-It does seem like a good idea when you have 500 Testcases to
> generate and you are being pressured for end of the day results
> Mark-will the eclipse plugin support Automatic cactus testcase
generation
> by
> discovering JNDI names by parsing server.xml?
> Thanks
> Martin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Lybarger" <Mark.Lybarger@CBC-Companies.com>
> To: "'Cactus Users List'" <cactus-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:49 AM
> Subject: RE: Automated cactus generation tool (was RE: RE: Good bye
Tarek
> (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found))
> 
> 
> > I think this does seem like a decent idea for the eclipse plugin to
> handle.
> > Eclipse allows creating a new junit test case, and about the only
other
> > thing a cactus plugin would need is the jndi name of the bean.
Given
> that,
> > it could possibly create even a sample test case just to get
something
> > running.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vmassol@pivolis.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:38 AM
> > > To: 'Cactus Users List'
> > > Subject: RE: Automated cactus generation tool (was RE: RE: Good
bye
> > > Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem
Found))
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Martin,
> > >
> > > No I don't know any. I personally don't see the need for one for 2
> > > reasons:
> > >
> > > 1/ I don't what is difficult in typing:
> > >
> > > public class MyclassTest extends ServletTestCase
> > >
> > > 2/ This can be done with a macro in your IDE
> > >
> > > Or do you mean other advanced feature?
> > >
> > > What I don't like with generators is that they tend to be verbose.
I'm
> > > sure that instead of what I've written in 1/, your generator
> > > would have
> > > written instead:
> > >
> > > public class MyclassTest extends ServletTestCase
> > > {
> > >   public MyclassTest(String name)
> > >   {
> > >     super(name);
> > >   }
> > >
> > >   public static Test suite()
> > >   {
> > >     return new TestSuite(MyclassTest.class);
> > >   }
> > >
> > >   public static void main(String[] args)
> > >   {
> > >     ....
> > >
> > > no? ;-)
> > >
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgainty@hotmail.com]
> > > > Sent: 24 November 2003 05:47
> > > > To: Cactus Users List; vmassol@pivolis.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Automated cactus generation tool (was RE: RE: Good
bye
> > > Tarek
> > > > (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found))
> > > >
> > > > Vincent
> > > > I have used Artur Hefcyz testsgen to generate skeleton code for
2
> > > > differing
> > > > situations and in both cases they worked extremely well
> > > > I was looking for a like minded Cactus TestCase generator
> > > if you know
> > > of
> > > > one
> > > > I would appreciate a link
> > > > Many Thanks,
> > > > Martin
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Vincent Massol" <vmassol@pivolis.com>
> > > > To: "'Cactus Users List'" <cactus-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 3:33 PM
> > > > Subject: Automated cactus generation tool (was RE: RE: Good
> > > bye Tarek
> > > (was
> > > > RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found))
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Martin,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry but I don't know what an automated junit generation tool
is.
> > > Do
> > > > > you mean a tool that generates skeleton TestCase?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > -Vincent
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgainty@hotmail.com]
> > > > > > Sent: 24 November 2003 02:26
> > > > > > To: Cactus Users List
> > > > > > Subject: Re: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE:
> > > Authentication
> > > > > > Failure --> Problem Found)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the same note is there a automated cactus generation
> > > tool such
> > > as
> > > > > the
> > > > > > one for junit?
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Martin
> > > > > >   >From: "Eric Pugh"
> > > > > >   >Reply-To:
> > > > > >   >To: "'Cactus Users List'"
> > > > > >   >Subject: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE:
> > > Authentication
> > > > > Failure
> > > > > > --> Problem Found)
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> > > > > >   >
> > > > > >   >Just a heads up on Mock objects.. they seem simple, they
> > > aren't.
> > > > > There
> > > > > > are
> > > > > >   >a lot of weird subtleness issues with the order of
setting up
> > > > > expected
> > > > > >   >results. And the concept of using generic objects to
record a
> > > > > series of
> > > > > >   >expected results, and then verifing the expected
> > > results occur
> > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > real
> > > > > >   >object? Egads..! Cactus has lots of setup issues,
> > > that is where
> > > > > most
> > > > > >   >bugs/heartache comes from. MockObjects, especially
> > > once you get
> > > > > beyonnd
> > > > > > the
> > > > > >   >super simple onces, have a lot of difficult concepts to
grok
> > > > > instead..
> > > > > >   >
> > > > > >   >The two technologies are both difficult, simple on
> > > the surface,
> > > but
> > > > > > more
> > > > > >   >complex as you get deeper. Something that may help with
> > > learning
> > > > > cactus
> > > > > > is
> > > > > >   >to A) buy the book. b) Start over with much simpler
> > > use cases.
> > > When
> > > > > i
> > > > > >   >tried Cactus the first time, I tried to apply it to a
very
> > > complex
> > > > > > database
> > > > > >   >driven, xml parsing, coffee brewing app! Well, it didn't
brew
> > > > > coffee,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > >   >almost. It was very frustrating. So then I went and tried
out
> > > > > cactus
> > > > > >   >testing with the JNDI code for commons-configuration,
and
it
> > > was
> > > > > much
> > > > > >   >simpler.. Contributing that code helped me get a
> > > success under
> > > my
> > > > > belt
> > > > > > and
> > > > > >   >made getting deeper into cactus much more enjoyable.
> > > > > >   >
> > > > > >   >I do think my motto: "Nothing is ever easy..." is very
> > > applicable
> > > > > to
> > > > > >   >software development..!
> > > > > >   >
> > > > > >   >Eric
> > > > > >   >
> > > > > >   > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >   > > From: Tarek M. Nabil [mailto:Tarek.Nabil@itworx.com]
> > > > > >   > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 11:19 AM
> > > > > >   > > To: Cactus Users List
> > > > > >   > > Subject: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE:
> > > > > >   > > Authentication Failure
> > > > > >   > > --> Problem Found)
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > Vincent,
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > AFAIK, there are not many known bugs. 99.99% of
> > > the time it
> > > > > >   > > is an error
> > > > > >   > > from its users. J2EE stuff is complex.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > Maybe that's because there are a lot of subtle things
that
> > > > > >   > > you need to do to get it to work, and they're never
> > > mentioned
> > > > > >   > > in the documentation.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > There are other ways to pay back apart from money,
like
> > > > > >   > > giving your time to help
> > > > > >   > > the others and contributing. I can tell you that
if
you're
> > > > > > recognized
> > > > > >   > > for doing this others will more likely help you
> > > out. That's
> > > how
> > > > > > things
> > > > > >   > > work in life. It's also true for open source.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > That's easier said than done. How can you contribute
to
> > > > > >   > > something you can't understand? If you have a problem
and
> > > you
> > > > > >   > > never find out how to solve it, what do you have
to
> > > contribute?
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > Anyway, thanks to everyone. And, BTW, mock objects
are
my
> > > > > >   > > next trial, so wish me luck.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > Thanks,
> > > > > >   > > Tarek Nabil
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >   > > From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vmassol@pivolis.com]
> > > > > >   > > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:06 PM
> > > > > >   > > To: 'Cactus Users List'
> > > > > >   > > Subject: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE:
> > > Authentication
> > > > > >   > > Failure -->
> > > > > >   > > Problem Found)
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >   > > > From: Tarek M. Nabil [mailto:Tarek.Nabil@itworx.com]
> > > > > >   > > > Sent: 23 November 2003 10:22
> > > > > >   > > > To: Cactus Users List
> > > > > >   > > > Subject: RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure
-->
> > > Problem
> > > > > Found
> > > > > >   > > >
> > > > > >   > > > Hi Andrew,
> > > > > >   > > >
> > > > > >   > > > Thanks for your support. I hope that you and
> > > everyone else
> > > > > will
> > > > > > have
> > > > > >   > > > better luck with your efforts. As for me, I've
> > > decided to
> > > drop
> > > > > the
> > > > > >   > > whole
> > > > > >   > > > Cactus idea. The problem I described below
took
> > > me several
> > > > > days to
> > > > > >   > > > determine the root cause and until now, I haven't
been
> > > able to
> > > > > > solve
> > > > > >   > > it.
> > > > > >   > > > Now, that I'm even faced with more problems
writing
> > > trivial
> > > > > >   > > tests, and
> > > > > >   > > my
> > > > > >   > > > questions are not being answered by anyone,
it
> > > seems that
> > > the
> > > > > > whole
> > > > > >   > > thing
> > > > > >   > > > is losing its meaning. This is supposed to
increase
> > > > > >   > > productivity, not
> > > > > >   > > > hinder it.
> > > > > >   > > >
> > > > > >   > > > Maybe in the future, when the framework is
less
> > > buggy and
> > > > > there
> > > > > > are
> > > > > >   > > more
> > > > > >   > > > developers dedicated to support, maybe then
I will
try
> > > again.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > AFAIK, there are not many known bugs. 99.99% of
> > > the time it
> > > > > >   > > is an error
> > > > > >   > > from its users. J2EE stuff is complex.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > >
> > > > > >   > > > Before I unsubscribe from this list, I just
want to
say
> > > that I
> > > > > > still
> > > > > >   > > > believe in the open source model. But open
> > > source projects
> > > > > >   > > need a lot
> > > > > >   > > of
> > > > > >   > > > effort before they're embraced by the developer
> > > community.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > *You* are the open source, so it's only as good
as you
can
> > > make
> > > > > it.
> > > > > >   > > There's no one paid to support you, Tarek. We're
all
busy
> > > > > >   > > working on our
> > > > > >   > > day work and we're only developing/supporting at
> > > night time,
> > > > > >   > > during our
> > > > > >   > > free time.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > That said, nobody is preventing your from hiring
support
> > > > > services to
> > > > > >   > > help you out. AFAIK, you haven't approached anybody
for
> > > that.
> > > > > >   > > There are
> > > > > >   > > other ways to pay back apart from money, like giving
your
> > > time
> > > > > to
> > > > > > help
> > > > > >   > > the others and contributing. I can tell you that
if
you're
> > > > > > recognized
> > > > > >   > > for doing this others will more likely help you
> > > out. That's
> > > how
> > > > > > things
> > > > > >   > > work in life. It's also true for open source.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > > The most
> > > > > >   > > > important of these efforts is support to the
community
> > > > > >   > > through mailing
> > > > > >   > > > lists like this. Unfortunately, this is not
the
> > > case here.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > Feel free to come back when you've something to
> > > contribute.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > Thanks and good luck
> > > > > >   > > -Vincent
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > PS: If you don't want to use Cactus, the other
alternative
> > > you
> > > > > > should
> > > > > >   > > consider is using mock objects.
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > > [snip]
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > > >   > >
> > > > >
> > >
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