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From "Eric Pugh" <ep...@upstate.com>
Subject RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found)
Date Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:11:10 GMT
Just a heads up on Mock objects..  they seem simple, they aren't.  There are
a lot of weird subtleness issues with the order of setting up expected
results.  And the concept of using generic objects to record a series of
expected results, and then verifing the expected results occur with a real
object?  Egads..!  Cactus has lots of setup issues, that is where most
bugs/heartache comes from.  MockObjects, especially once you get beyonnd the
super simple onces, have a lot of difficult concepts to grok instead..

The two technologies are both difficult, simple on the surface, but more
complex as you get deeper.  Something that may help with learning cactus is
to A) buy the book.  b) Start over with much simpler use cases.  When i
tried Cactus the first time, I tried to apply it to a very complex database
driven, xml parsing, coffee brewing app!  Well, it didn't brew coffee, but
almost.  It was very frustrating.  So then I went and tried out cactus
testing with the JNDI code for commons-configuration, and it was much
simpler..  Contributing that code helped me get a success under my belt and
made getting deeper into cactus much more enjoyable.

I do think my motto: "Nothing is ever easy..." is very applicable to
software development..!

Eric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tarek M. Nabil [mailto:Tarek.Nabil@itworx.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 11:19 AM
> To: Cactus Users List
> Subject: RE: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: 
> Authentication Failure
> --> Problem Found)
> 
> 
> Vincent,
> 
> <quote>
> AFAIK, there are not many known bugs. 99.99% of the time it 
> is an error
> from its users. J2EE stuff is complex.
> </quote>
> 
> Maybe that's because there are a lot of subtle things that 
> you need to do to get it to work, and they're never mentioned 
> in the documentation.
> 
> <quote>
> There are other ways to pay back apart from money, like 
> giving your time to help
> the others and contributing. I can tell you that if you're recognized
> for doing this others will more likely help you out. That's how things
> work in life. It's also true for open source.
> </quote>
> 
> That's easier said than done. How can you contribute to 
> something you can't understand? If you have a problem and you 
> never find out how to solve it, what do you have to contribute?
> 
> Anyway, thanks to everyone. And, BTW, mock objects are my 
> next trial, so wish me luck.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tarek Nabil
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vincent Massol [mailto:vmassol@pivolis.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:06 PM
> To: 'Cactus Users List'
> Subject: Good bye Tarek (was RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication 
> Failure -->
> Problem Found)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tarek M. Nabil [mailto:Tarek.Nabil@itworx.com]
> > Sent: 23 November 2003 10:22
> > To: Cactus Users List
> > Subject: RE: REPOST: RE: Authentication Failure --> Problem Found
> > 
> > Hi Andrew,
> > 
> > Thanks for your support. I hope that you and everyone else will have
> > better luck with your efforts. As for me, I've decided to drop the
> whole
> > Cactus idea. The problem I described below took me several days to
> > determine the root cause and until now, I haven't been able to solve
> it.
> > Now, that I'm even faced with more problems writing trivial 
> tests, and
> my
> > questions are not being answered by anyone, it seems that the whole
> thing
> > is losing its meaning. This is supposed to increase 
> productivity, not
> > hinder it.
> > 
> > Maybe in the future, when the framework is less buggy and there are
> more
> > developers dedicated to support, maybe then I will try again.
> 
> AFAIK, there are not many known bugs. 99.99% of the time it 
> is an error
> from its users. J2EE stuff is complex.
> 
> > 
> > Before I unsubscribe from this list, I just want to say that I still
> > believe in the open source model. But open source projects 
> need a lot
> of
> > effort before they're embraced by the developer community. 
> 
> *You* are the open source, so it's only as good as you can make it.
> There's no one paid to support you, Tarek. We're all busy 
> working on our
> day work and we're only developing/supporting at night time, 
> during our
> free time. 
> 
> That said, nobody is preventing your from hiring support services to
> help you out. AFAIK, you haven't approached anybody for that. 
> There are
> other ways to pay back apart from money, like giving your time to help
> the others and contributing. I can tell you that if you're recognized
> for doing this others will more likely help you out. That's how things
> work in life. It's also true for open source.
> 
> > The most
> > important of these efforts is support to the community 
> through mailing
> > lists like this. Unfortunately, this is not the case here.
> 
> Feel free to come back when you've something to contribute.
> 
> Thanks and good luck
> -Vincent
> 
> PS: If you don't want to use Cactus, the other alternative you should
> consider is using mock objects.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
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