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From: Dan Haywood <dan@haywood-associates.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:15:03 +0000
Message-ID: 
 <CALJOYLF1ZBr4Leiwf+=OsvQQZSOWFTfm7RLw3=yzr_RqEiGXNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Course of Interest
To: users <users@isis.apache.org>
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was just poking around for an example ontology that one might play with...
the BBC looks like a good bet [1].

I suspect that there's some way to access the semantic web that drives its
web pages in a machine processable form.  This guy [2] seems to have
published some useful stuff in this area (works for the Beeb).

Dan

[1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/ontologies/bbc
[2] http://raimond.me.uk/pubs/


On 3 November 2015 at 02:16, Stephen Cameron <steve.cameron.62@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Dan Haywood <dan@haywood-associates.co.uk
> >
> wrote:
>
> > On 2 November 2015 at 23:27, Stephen Cameron <steve.cameron.62@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > What relevance of this too Apache Isis? Well you nearly got it straight
> > > off, that the Isis meta-model is a model that maybe can be exported as
> > OWL.
> > > I don't think so as its more of logical model than a conceptual one. I
> am
> > > thinking the other way around, that a conceptual model in OWL, or
> > something
> > > else, could be the basis of the Isis meta-model.
> > >
> > >
> > > Also very interesting.  I think this would be doable... further
> thoughts
> > below.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > The thing that led me to Isis was that half of this picture is already
> > > done, the model to UI part, I thought maybe I could add the other half
> > > (person to model)?
> >
> >
> > Yes, perhaps...
> >
> > Now that we have view models as first-class citizens, I could imagine an
> > Isis application where every semantic resource could be surfaced as an
> view
> > model (@DomainObject(nature=EXTERNAL_ENTITY) is probably how I would
> model
> > it).
> >
> > Or, an alternative would be treat them as regular persisted entities via
> > DataNucleus, and use DN's Store API to know how to query a semantic web
> of
> > resources.  However, that's one extra layer to worry about which may or
> may
> > not work.  Sticking with Isis view models is probably easier.
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > Also the meta-model in Isis is a OO model, which is
> > > nearly what you want perhaps?
> >
> >
> >
> > As you know, the way in which Isis builds up its metamodel is quite
> > flexible (the FacetFactory API).    In Isis' default programming model
> > there is a "special" FacetFactory called
> > "PropertyOrCollectionIdentifyingFacetFactory" that is used to infer the
> > initial "know-what" structure of each domain class.  I could imagine a
> > similar facet factory for the semantic web that queried the OWL metamodel
> > (?) to ask which triples exist for a particular resource.
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> > > That is what I want to get a handle on via
> > > this course.
> > >
> > >
> > Good stuff; will hear back presently no doubt!
> >
> > Thx
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > Encouraging, I have browsed around in the meta-model code, but very
> casually!
>
> I am hoping that others might like to work through a design on this mailing
> list, hence my suggestion of doing the course, so we are all on the same
> page (mostly) at the start.
>
> Open-source CMS systems have gone down the semantic path a bit, such as
> semantic wikis. The idea of using a conceptual model as the interface to a
> database  has a long history but never seems to make it as a mainstream
> thing (See for example Object-Role-Modeling). Microsoft has Entity
> Framework but that still seems a logical model to me, a tool to help
> programmers.
>
> But I believe DDD has this conceptual model idea at its core in terms of
> the Ubiquitous Language. That by being precise about the meaning of terms
> new insights are gained.
>
> That OWL is widely used might make it a good choice.  What the user sees
> does not necessarily have to be lots of URIs, these are essentially just
> names within namespaces (same as class names within a package names), its
> just a means of classification.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>
> >
> > > Regards
> > > Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 6:25 AM, Dan Haywood <
> > dan@haywood-associates.co.uk>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the precis, Cesar... very interesting.
> > > >
> > > > Clearly in Isis we have a lot of the information in our metamodel
> that
> > > > could be the input for a semantic web ontology; I'd appreciate
> > > > understanding how this information is "exported" such that an Isis
> app
> > > can
> > > > also be considered as a "semantic web app" (if that's even a term...)
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2 November 2015 at 15:59, Cesar Lugo <cesar.lugo@sisorg.com.mx>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dan, I think this is an important and very interesting topic. I
> have
> > > some
> > > > > basic knowledge of the semantic web concepts, and I have done some
> > > > > significant prototyping using semantic web tools, just far from
> being
> > > an
> > > > > expert or knowledgeable person. As far as I k now, the semantic web
> > > > concept
> > > > > was developed by the father of the www, and it adds semantics to
> the
> > > web
> > > > > content, and to the web applications as well. This has also been
> > called
> > > > the
> > > > > Web 3.0, and the semantic web technologies go from adding semantics
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > web pages, to build entire semantic applications.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the UI web pages side, it adds semantics embedded within the
> HTML
> > > with
> > > > > semantic extensions, so a browser would be able to know more
> > > information
> > > > > about the semantics of that page. For example, when you look at an
> > > > amazon's
> > > > > web page and find a book, you know that you are looking at a book,
> > you
> > > > know
> > > > > what a book is, you know it's about growing apples, and you know
> some
> > > > > numbers besides it are the different prices of the book, and the
> text
> > > > > besides it is an overview of the book's contents. The browser,
> > > currently
> > > > in
> > > > > web 2.0, does not know any of those semantics, but just the page
> > > content
> > > > in
> > > > > terms of things like fields, controls and links. The semantic web
> > lets
> > > > the
> > > > > browser infer all those semantics from the web page, buy using
> > > ontologies
> > > > > and extended dictionaries (they are currently creating ontologies
> > based
> > > > on
> > > > > Wikipedia content, but structured so the systems can understand and
> > > infer
> > > > > meaning, not just content). The idea is that having the browser
> know
> > > the
> > > > > semantics, it will help interact among other systems in a more
> > > semantical
> > > > > way, like, for example, if you are interested in growing apples,
> then
> > > you
> > > > > might also be interested in growing some kinds of organic food.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then, at the domain logic layer, you use ontologies (expressed in
> > RDFs)
> > > > to
> > > > > represent your domain, which allows you to re-use existing
> ontologies
> > > for
> > > > > common topics like a customer, a vendor, a company, the
> relationship
> > > > among
> > > > > people (like the FOAF friend of a friend ontology), a product, and
> > > more.
> > > > > Then, there is a language called SPARQL, similar to SQL, but works
> at
> > > the
> > > > > ontology level. All that and more lets you create your apps with
> > > semantic
> > > > > content all over the app, not only at the UI. Your application will
> > be
> > > > more
> > > > > knowledgeable about the semantics of the topics (domain objects)
> > within
> > > > it,
> > > > > so you can use knowledge management methods to define and manage
> your
> > > > > domain logic and your exposed content, and interact with other
> > systems
> > > > at a
> > > > > semantic level.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cesar.
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Dan Haywood [mailto:dan@haywood-associates.co.uk]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 2, 2015 2:52 AM
> > > > > To: users
> > > > > Subject: Re: Course of Interest
> > > > >
> > > > > Shall be interested to hear your thoughts on this... not a subject
> I
> > > have
> > > > > any knowledge of.
> > > > >
> > > > > cheers
> > > > > Dan
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2 November 2015 at 02:40, Stephen Cameron <
> > > steve.cameron.62@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Apache Isis Community,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am about to start an free online course on Semantic Web
> > > > > > Technologies. At the moment the connection to Isis is not clear,
> > but
> > > I
> > > > > > have ideas. I am doing this course to see if my ideas have any
> > > > > > relationship to reality, specifically in regard to conceptual
> > models.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://open.hpi.de/courses/semanticweb2015?locale=en
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > Steve Cameron
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> software.
> > > > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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