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From GESCONSULTOR - Óscar Bou <o....@gesconsultor.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] next gen viewer
Date Sat, 07 Sep 2013 11:04:31 GMT

+1 To David   :-))


> 
> With ISIS able to generate many viewers, then perhaps we are looking at
> the real game changer in the enterprise being ISIS.
> 

Ooh, please keep saying that!  (Still hoping for one of the opinion formers
of the tech community - the Martin Fowlers etc - to rediscover NO via Isis
and take a similar view).





El 07/09/2013, a las 12:22, Dan Haywood <dan@haywood-associates.co.uk> escribió:

> On 7 September 2013 11:02, GESCONSULTOR - Óscar Bou
> <o.bou@gesconsultor.com>wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> First of all, the meeting is a great idea !
>> Count, at least, with me... On those dates, perhaps one mate can join.
>> 
> 
> Good stuff... I thought you might be interested!
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Regarding the UI, I'm also a big fan of bootstrap. As there's a clear
>> distinction between code and themes, and with such high adoption, in the
>> future we will be able to change the UI appearance  easily (for "selling"
>> software that's a really important point, competing with packages with
>> similar functionalities).
>> 
> 
> Yeah, themeability is important if Isis is to succeed as a framework.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Regarding the tab "metaphor", we are using it together with modal forms
>> (in "excess", I would say... And as we don't have a "modern" theme right
>> now seems a bit updated; that was also a plus for the wicket migration to
>> bootstrap :-).
>> 
>> We like the SPA metaphor, but a proper mechanism for navigating and
>> bookmarking an entity's form or action form is needed.
>> 
> 
> The ideal might be to find some way of combining the hierarchical grouping
> capability of the sliding bookmark panel with the accessibility of the
> tabs.  Perhaps each tab is the root aggregate, but lets the user select any
> object within the aggregate.
> 
> These are the sort of ideas we should kick around in a face-to-face meetup.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Seeing the Spiro screenshots, the navigation metaphor, including the " +
>> ", seems a good idea, but as it's opening the linked entity to the right
>> (on current screenshots) instead of directly opening the entity's page (or
>> SPA form), I'm not sure about user-adoption. It also requires the right
>> part of the screen (on those screenshots) to be empty, in order to show it.
>> 
>> Perhaps there's a slight variation that could adapt better to user
>> expectations and screen size. When first clicked, the entity could show on
>> a modal form (not loosing the main context). In that modal form the " + "
>> button would be available and, when clicked, it would changed the "context"
>> by closing the modal form and opening on the main screen that entity's form
>> - or action form -.
>> 
>> Not sure... Perhaps some user-adoption tests needed :-)
>> 
>> 
> Yeah, coming up with a usable generic UI is non-trivial, irrespective of
> the actual technologies used.
> 
> They are going to be doing some more work on Spiro soon; that might come up
> with some more ideas.
> 
> Cheers
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Oscar
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> El 07/09/2013, a las 10:25, Dan Haywood <dan@haywood-associates.co.uk>
>> escribió:
>> 
>>> Breaking this out to a new thread...
>>> 
>>> ~~~
>>> Over the last few days I've (coincidentally) been having off-list
>>> discussions with both Maurizio and Jeroen, thinking about what the next
>> gen
>>> viewer should be implemented and might look like.
>>> 
>>> We're all agreed, I think, that it should be a stateless RO-based viewer,
>>> and that it should build on Spiro [1].
>>> 
>>> In other words, the next gen viewer will be an SPA app, with AngularJS
>>> underneath, making RESTful calls to the Isis-provided backend.  The SPA
>> app
>>> would (as they all do) use some sort of templating framework and widget
>>> framework for generate the GUI.  For the latter, I think that Bootstrap
>> is
>>> a candidate (though Jeroen didn't agree, I think).
>>> 
>>> Although (hopefully) scalable to the internet, the intent should still
>>> primarily be for "problem solvers, not process followers", ie for those
>> who
>>> are familiar with the domain.
>>> 
>>> What that implies is solving the modality problem; allowing the user to
>>> switch context and to associate different contexts.  The original DnD
>>> viewer - whatever other faults it might have had - was very good at
>>> supporting this, with its "desktop" (windowed) metaphor.  Adam Howard's
>>> (currently stagnant) AROW viewer [2] also adopts a "desktop" metaphor.
>>> 
>>> At the other end of the spectrum, my Wicket viewer is very page oriented.
>>> This means that the user looks only at one object at a time.  The
>>> autocomplete stuff makes it easier to associate stuff, and the bookmarks
>>> panel helps provide some sense of context, but I'm the first to admit
>> that
>>> the Wicket viewer is closer to a website than an webapp.
>>> 
>>> Maurizio's DHTMLX viewer is more page oriented [3], but the use of tabs
>>> does go a long way to mitigating this.  I probably should acknowledge
>> that
>>> tabs is a better metaphor for helping the user to maintain context than
>> the
>>> sliding bookmarks I've implemented in the Wicket viewer.
>>> 
>>> Anyway... no work on a new RO viewer is going to happen this side of
>> Xmas,
>>> but it might be worth arranging some sort of get together over a offsite
>>> weekend (in Europe, somewhere) to thrash out ideas.    I'm thinking
>>> something like Mar~May next year (depending on how well Estatio beds in
>>> when it goes live).
>>> 
>>> Let me know your thoughts, and whether you'd be interested in meeting up
>> to
>>> discuss this (or any other Isis-related stuff, I suppose).
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [1] https://github.com/nakedobjectsgroup/spiro
>>> [2] http://simple-dusk-6870.herokuapp.com/arow-fpc.html
>>> [3] http://isis-viewer-dhtmlx.appspot.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 7 September 2013 09:03, GESCONSULTOR - Óscar Bou
>>> <o.bou@gesconsultor.com>wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Just to clarify, the point is that our current viewer, based on
>> Wavemaker,
>>>> is implemented in DOJO, and we have all "screen widgets composition"
>> code.
>>>> 
>>>> As we must "refactor" the Isis session management, perhaps a good
>> solution
>>>> would be to re-use the js viewer code, but, as you pointed out, that
>> will
>>>> be better done on the future project with Stef and Richard.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks and keep the good work,
>>>> 
>>>> Oscar
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> El 06/09/2013, a las 22:47, GESCONSULTOR <o.bou@gesconsultor.com>
>>>> escribió:
>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, that was what I meant.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> El 06/09/2013, a las 21:15, Bhargav Golla <bhargav.golla@gmail.com>
>>>> escribió:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am sorry. I didn't exactly understand your question. Are you asking
>>>> if we
>>>>>> can use my code with minor changes, to use it with other UI libraries?
>>>> If
>>>>>> so, currently, no. As part of my plan post GSoC, as discussed with
>> Dan,
>>>> I
>>>>>> would be working on something similar to this idea, with what Stef
and
>>>>>> Richard are working on in Spiro. We will work to improve their models
>>>> file
>>>>>> to act as a complete interface to all Isis interactions, so that
>>>> developers
>>>>>> can then develop any JS viewer by making use of this models file.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bhargav Golla
>>>>>> Developer. Freelancer.
>>>>>> B.E (Hons.) Computer Science
>>>>>> BITS-Pilani
>>>>>> Github <http://www.github.com/bhargavgolla> |
>>>>>> LinkedIN<http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhargavgolla>
>>>>>> | Website <http://www.bhargavgolla.com/>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 12:32 AM, GESCONSULTOR <o.bou@gesconsultor.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Looks really well, Bhargav.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just to know, Would it be "relatively" easy to reuse the classes
>>>>>>> interacting with Isis (for obtaining properties and collections,
>>>> updating
>>>>>>> properties or executing actions) on an existing project made
with
>> other
>>>>>>> JavaScript UI libraries, like ExtJS, Vaadin or the ones here
[1]?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Oscar
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> http://speckyboy.com/2010/05/17/15-javascript-web-ui-libraries-frameworks-and-libraries/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> 


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