From zeta-dev-return-721-apmail-incubator-zeta-dev-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Wed Apr 20 08:30:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-zeta-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-zeta-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1EB2C1A54 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:30:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 51436 invoked by uid 500); 20 Apr 2011 07:30:50 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-zeta-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 51338 invoked by uid 500); 20 Apr 2011 07:30:50 -0000 Mailing-List: contact zeta-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: zeta-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list zeta-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 51326 invoked by uid 99); 20 Apr 2011 07:30:49 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:30:49 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RFC_ABUSE_POST,SPF_PASS,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of jerome.renard@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.47 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.210.47] (HELO mail-pz0-f47.google.com) (209.85.210.47) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 07:30:43 +0000 Received: by pzk35 with SMTP id 35so269881pzk.6 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 00:30:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hS+8Nw2VIqcPBX5Ut662YzoI/4hIAN3BJnTu2NV0D80=; b=SNI9caVk0tUR+Hqu3Ecpz9SpDW5y5dGIFHZDbSJLHIWTlaQKA0Phh6/EfG6qgk2dsJ NMlwqeJDzyTJid+ofeUpMmIoh94mFokpLwEUmp84mRXyxGQtNddEkOOh4GKFi4OM4sWP yj07/slLzUap2T2QnfVd7VLVUMQbo6kuZwhsc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=UU9MmzL11aw3XCy9f6vmDjJXT6yRGmZYqdyZ62K5A+UMXAJJ+bnfjcFn+CEarOn5Rr YVfXA29KCa45++4hhWbxMhVxE1OgmvtjPOi7YIt1QK6NfvCExqgpTyOtkXIsUl8te00u VBJ1bGb8ouGduojlH3dH+1I38DDHpzxx2NR+s= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.20.136 with SMTP id n8mr10635616pbe.225.1303284621547; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 00:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.62.163 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 00:30:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4DAE82C7.5040305@apache.org> References: <4DAE82C7.5040305@apache.org> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:30:21 +0200 Message-ID: From: Jerome Renard To: zeta-dev@incubator.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Subject: Re: [zeta-dev] PHP based build system : Phing VS Pake Hi Sebastian, On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Sebastian Bergmann wrote: > Am 12.04.2011 17:02, schrieb Jerome Renard: >> 4. the Ant build file is not as cross-platform as I hoped it was (my bad= ) >> 5. the Ant build file will most likely be a PITA to maintain as well > > =C2=A0Can you elaborate on this? Sorry that I am late to the party, but I= do > =C2=A0not have the time to keep up with this mailinglist and only now saw= this > =C2=A0thread today. > No worries. > =C2=A0I am asking because in my experience Phing, Pake, and friends turne= d out > =C2=A0to be half-baked (pun intended) when compared to Ant. Well, it really depends on what you want. I would say the main problem with= Ant is there is no loops and conditionals (except but this is not what I call a conditional). If you want those loops and conditionnals, you have to install ant-contrib [1] but if you want to avoid your users to avoid installing ant-contrib by themselves (and thus fighting with CLASSPATH issues and other when you are not used to use Java) you have to use Ivy [2] which adds a second level of complexity, but still acceptable I agree. The main problem with Ant is that it is hard to program how a build should be done by using XML. You can do a lot of operations but it is common to get a 1000+ lines build file, and reading that long XML files is not really easy (I know there is ). I would say that for trivial tasks, using Ant would really be useful, but when you want to do more complex things, like dealing with external librairies and so on, then you have to be prepared to spend a lot of time in finding the library you want and make it installable through Ivy etc, etc. When you are not used to that this is really time consuming. Another problem with Ant is that there is no native libraries to deal with strings, there are external librairies to workaround that problem, for example, here is what you can do in order to capitalize a string in Ant : #1 using JavaScript in your ant file [3], until you realize that Ant will beautifully crash when running any