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From Evan Hughes <wisebald...@apache.org>
Subject Re: A Wavy Future
Date Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:02:59 GMT
@pablo

you probably know the wave data model more than me, I should be on hipchat
for next 2hrs then afk for 8hrs then ill be back.

On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 at 21:18 <pablojan@gmail.com> wrote:

> I will be glad to collaborate :)
>
> El 20/3/2016 3:36 a. m., Evan Hughes <wisebaldone@apache.org> escribió:
>
> The cwiki seems to be best place for the time being, anyone wanting to
> contribute let the mailing list know for writing permissions.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/A+Wavey+Future
>
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 at 18:55 Evan Hughes <ehugh1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Whats the best way we can collab on a protocol spec.
> >
> > On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 at 07:05 Thomas Wrobel <darkflame@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> As for the differences to Pie...I cant tell because there seems to be
> >> very little information on Pie online, nor a working copy.
> >> Id guess however Pie is a closed, unfederated messaging system though.
> >> Can previous messages be edited? is the conversation thread
> >> non-linear?
> >> The differences between a wave server/client system and a (typical) "
> >> fun messaging app" would be quite a lot.
> >> --
> >> http://lostagain.nl <-- our company site.
> >> http://fanficmaker.com <-- our, really,really, bad story generator.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 18 March 2016 at 18:26, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > There is at least one commercial successor -
> >> https://www.co-meeting.com/
> >> > There was also another commercial attempt, which failed but is now
> open
> >> > sourced - https://github.com/jorkey/Wiab.pro
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 12:29 PM Adam Bielski
> >> <a_bielski@ymail.com.invalid>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hiya all!
> >> >> I am new to this mailing group and I wanted to further understand the
> >> >> limitations OR differences that WiaB provides in comparisson to:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/pie-computing#/entity
> >> >>
> >> >> And WHY has there not been a successor (based on the GOOGLE WAVE
> >> project)
> >> >> that has ever been launched for commercial use!?
> >> >> Cheers!
> >> >> Adam
> >> >>     2:29 środa, 2016-3-16, Evan Hughes <ehugh1@gmail.com>
> napisał(a):
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sorry many mistakes, currently on mobile. Meant to say "the OS
> editors
> >> arnt
> >> >> bad but....."
> >> >> On 16/03/2016 11:18 AM, "Evan Hughes" <ehugh1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I had a look at quill and react seperatly dismorning, interestingly
> >> the
> >> >> > atom editor is built using react and they have done at least one if
> >> not
> >> >> > more about how they get more performance out of it, moving
> rendering
> >> to
> >> >> the
> >> >> > gpu and such.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Do you think itll actually be possible to remove ot somewhat from
> the
> >> >> > client,  how do we efficently send data to the client that the
> >> document
> >> >> has
> >> >> > changed.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Also we must be very careful abiut what editor we choose if we arnt
> >> >> > building one inhouse, debugging could destroy us all.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But the c-rendering we could do inhouse then we would have a basis
> >> for
> >> >> > creating a c-editor from scatch. Not that the OS projects are bad
> but
> >> >> its a
> >> >> > pretty broad featire set we need.
> >> >> > On 16/03/2016 11:00 AM, "Joseph Gentle" <me@josephg.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Sorry, just poking in here -
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> A couple of years ago I worked with QuillJS's author to add OT to
> >> >> >> quill. Its a rich text editor, which emits user events and Jason
> >> (the
> >> >> >> author) has a module which interprets those events, builds
> >> operations
> >> >> >> and can do OT with them. It doesn't support rich embedding of
> >> >> >> components yet, but he's working on that now.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> React's Draft-js might also work well.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -J
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Michael MacFadden
> >> >> >> <michael.macfadden@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > All,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > A few things on the editor.  For one.  I think ACE is a plain
> text
> >> >> >> editor, which I have used for a bunch of things.  Has a great API
> >> for
> >> >> >> collaboration integration, but it is not rich text, which is what
> >> wave
> >> >> is
> >> >> >> all about.  So I don’t think that will work.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Also, I think perhaps I should clarify the term editor.  I
> >> probably
> >> >> >> used in inappropriately.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > There are two parts to be concerned with.  The first is
> >> collaborative
> >> >> >> rendering.  If you are just looking at a blip, you can still see
> it
> >> >> change
> >> >> >> in real time.  So this would be collaborative rendering.  Then
> when
> >> you
> >> >> are
> >> >> >> actively editing a blip, you need a collaborative editor.  Both
> are
> >> >> >> important.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > The main performance issue comes in two places.  First I may
> have
> >> a
> >> >> >> conversation model that contains hundreds of blips.  Some sort of
> >> lazy
> >> >> >> loading strategy here is probably required and smart attaching and
> >> >> >> detaching of listeners.  If you have hundreds of blips all
> rendered
> >> at
> >> >> once
> >> >> >> and all having to have listeners attached to them because any one
> of
> >> >> them
> >> >> >> can change at any time you can run into rendering performance
> >> issues.
> >> >> >> Secondarily, if you do have lots of people editing lots of blips,
> >> much
> >> >> of
> >> >> >> that will not be “on screen” for a given user, and you don’t want
> >> to be
> >> >> >> processing all of those events and messing with the DOM if you
> don’t
> >> >> need
> >> >> >> to.  So there are performance and complexity issues there.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Then there is the actual editor.  Building a Rich Text Editor is
> >> not
> >> >> >> trivial (still.. How can this be???).  So you have to deal with
> all
> >> the
> >> >> >> issues of building a rich text editor.  Then on top of that you
> >> want to
> >> >> >> integrate remote cursors, selections, authorship, etc. into that
> >> editor.
> >> >> >> Most editors do not have that (a few do, and some are easier than
> >> >> others to
> >> >> >> add that).  So there is complexity here as well.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > If you want to use an open source editor you need one that does
> >> the
> >> >> >> kind of rich text editing you want to do. It needs to either have
> >> the
> >> >> >> collaboration capabilities (shared cursors, etc.) that you want,
> or
> >> it
> >> >> has
> >> >> >> to be reasonably easy to implement them yourself.  And it needs to
> >> have
> >> >> a
> >> >> >> good enough eventing API for you to hook into it to capture local
> >> >> changes,
> >> >> >> and to have API to allow you to drive remote changes into it.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > The point being that, the conversation renderer and rich text
> >> editor
> >> >> is
> >> >> >> a very non-trivial component, if the assumption is to roughly
> >> replicate
> >> >> >> what is there.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > One point I definitely agree with is that the editor itself
> really
> >> >> >> should know nothing about OT.  It should be decoupled and just
> >> needs to
> >> >> >> have a good API with good events.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > ~Michael
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > On 3/15/16, 10:11 AM, "Pablo Ojanguren" <pablojan@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>Talking about editors I suggest ace from mozilla,
> >> >> >> >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ace_%28editor%29
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>BTW, as example, this is an app we are developing on with
> SwellRT
> >> as
> >> >> >> >>backend:  http://staging.teem.works , -it is the staging
> >> version, you
> >> >> >> can
> >> >> >> >>play! ;)-
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>2016-03-15 17:12 GMT+01:00 Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com>:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> No, not really. Javascript on client side is enough - this is
> >> how it
> >> >> >> was
> >> >> >> >>> originally implemented in microwave by antimatter.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 6:08 PM Thomas Wrobel <
> >> darkflame@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> > Ah, right. I am all for realtime, merely that I was also
> >> happy to
> >> >> >> lose
> >> >> >> >>> > it if it meant significantly more simple implementation.
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >>"Otherwise we can use Robot
> >> >> >> >>> > >>API - like in https://github.com/vega113/microbox"
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > Not keen on RobotAPI as every time I read its use it seems
> to
> >> need
> >> >> >> an
> >> >> >> >>> > extra server in the chain/
> >> >> >> >>> > ie;
> >> >> >> >>> >  ...<>WaveServer <> Google App Engine <> client
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > It should be possible with the web today to avoid that and
> >> have
> >> >> >> >>> > clients connect directly to the wave server no? (hopefully
> >> using
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >>> > same protocol as any desktop/mobile client).
> >> >> >> >>> > Of course, I assume you could run host both servers on the
> >> same
> >> >> >> >>> > hardware, but still seems unnecessary to have that extra
> step.
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > --
> >> >> >> >>> > http://lostagain.nl <-- our company site.
> >> >> >> >>> > http://fanficmaker.com <-- our, really,really, bad story
> >> >> generator.
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > On 15 March 2016 at 16:48, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > > Yeah, the intention is to have realtime editing. Otherwise
> >> we
> >> >> can
> >> >> >> use
> >> >> >> >>> > Robot
> >> >> >> >>> > > API - like in https://github.com/vega113/microbox
> >> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >> >>> > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 5:45 PM Thomas Wrobel <
> >> >> >> darkflame@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> >>> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> Does it need to be OT aware on that scale? I thought that
> >> was
> >> >> >> only
> >> >> >> >>> > >> needed to have fully realtime blip updating rather then a
> >> >> "edit +
> >> >> >> >>> > >> submit" system. (whereupon the differences could be
> >> calculated
> >> >> >> >>> > >> separately from the editing)
> >> >> >> >>> > >> Is the intention then to still have realtime editing ? or
> >> is
> >> >> this
> >> >> >> >>> > >> needed anyway regardless?
> >> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> I admit I only know the basics of OT and am vaguely
> >> >> remembering a
> >> >> >> >>> > >> conversation about realtime blip editing adding
> complexity
> >> to
> >> >> >> things.
> >> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> --
> >> >> >> >>> > >> http://lostagain.nl <-- our company site.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> http://fanficmaker.com <-- our, really,really, bad story
> >> >> >> generator.
> >> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> On 15 March 2016 at 16:30, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> > Not really. You would need to make it OT aware. and
> then
> >> make
> >> >> >> it
> >> >> >> >>> > >> efficient.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> > Lot's of effort.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 5:24 PM Thomas Wrobel <
> >> >> >> darkflame@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> As a side, I noticed Michael MacFadden mentioned
> >> building a
> >> >> >> rich
> >> >> >> >>> text
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> editor in the browser, this much at least have been
> >> done in
> >> >> >> GWT
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> libraries;
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.gwtproject.org/javadoc/latest/com/google/gwt/user/client/ui/RichTextArea.html
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> Its fairly basic, but then, I would assume to start
> >> with at
> >> >> >> least
> >> >> >> >>> any
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> new wave client should stay fairly basic?
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> --
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> http://lostagain.nl <-- our company site.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> http://fanficmaker.com <-- our, really,really, bad
> >> story
> >> >> >> >>> generator.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> On 15 March 2016 at 15:48, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> > Yeah, we need to re-use the existing editor. Patches
> >> would
> >> >> >> be
> >> >> >> >>> > great!
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:46 PM Pablo Ojanguren <
> >> >> >> >>> > pablojan@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> I agree with the dependency hell issue and the
> >> suggestion
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> >>> > >> throwing
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> away the GWT client. This would require a new
> >> >> >> client-server API
> >> >> >> >>> as
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> suggested, however I think a Rest API won't be
> >> enough,
> >> >> >> because
> >> >> >> >>> > real
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> editing
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> needs websocket.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> I also agree with Michael, developing a new editor
> >> is a
> >> >> >> massive
> >> >> >> >>> > >> task, so
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> we should use an existing one and plug it in the
> new
> >> API.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> To write again the server in other language would
> be
> >> >> >> great, but
> >> >> >> >>> I
> >> >> >> >>> > >> think
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> it
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> requires a huge effort.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> I will be happy to help in decoupling the
> >> server-client,
> >> >> I
> >> >> >> can
> >> >> >> >>> > >> provide
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> the
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> experience from my fork. And I plan to send some
> >> patches
> >> >> >> to Wave
> >> >> >> >>> > >> soon.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> These are some slides about my fork (swellrt) it
> >> could
> >> >> >> give you
> >> >> >> >>> > some
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> ideas:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1WFDS_m7eyNjBjcdPs0zH496Y9bMSl0_JnSEYGjxNFn0/edit?usp=sharing
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18hMYyECo5EmQsrAb8DT6SkO7LksWVJnhdZmqeCsar4c/edit?usp=sharing
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> btw, I would like to start a business providing
> these
> >> >> >> SwellRT
> >> >> >> >>> > >> services.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> 2016-03-14 23:27 GMT+01:00 Joseph Gentle <
> >> me@josephg.com
> >> >> >:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> I've been playing with the idea of starting a
> >> company
> >> >> >> around a
> >> >> >> >>> > >> rewrite
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> of
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> wave for years.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> -J
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> On Tuesday, 15 March 2016, Adam Bielski
> >> >> >> >>> > <a_bielski@ymail.com.invalid
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Hiya all!I wish I could find out who is
> >> potentially
> >> >> >> >>> interested
> >> >> >> >>> > in
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> creating
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > the WAVE for a commercial service/productwith my
> >> seed
> >> >> >> >>> > >> startup!Cheers!
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Adam
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >    20:23 poniedziałek, 2016-3-14, Zachary Yaro <
> >> >> >> >>> > zmyaro@gmail.com
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > <javascript:;>> napisał(a):
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >  I am inclined to agree with Yuri—if the
> >> alternative
> >> >> >> >>> > >> implementation
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> can
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> be
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > developed in parallel around the same protocol,
> >> that
> >> >> >> would
> >> >> >> >>> seem
> >> >> >> >>> > >> to be
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> the
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > best scenario, but the existing codebase should
> be
> >> >> kept
> >> >> >> >>> because
> >> >> >> >>> > >> it is
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > (AFAIK) the most functional implementation of
> the
> >> >> >> protocol.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Zachary Yaro
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > On Mar 14, 2016 15:05, "Yuri Z" <
> >> vega113@gmail.com
> >> >> >> >>> > >> <javascript:;>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > I think that more "wavy" projects are nice,
> but
> >> IMO
> >> >> it
> >> >> >> >>> > doesn't
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> mean we
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > should abandon Apache Wave as it is now. I
> agree
> >> >> >> there are
> >> >> >> >>> a
> >> >> >> >>> > >> lot of
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > issues
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > with current code, but I think there's still
> >> value
> >> >> as
> >> >> >> >>> people
> >> >> >> >>> > can
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> see
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> what
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > Wave can potentially be.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 8:46 AM Evan Hughes <
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> wisebaldone@apache.org
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > <javascript:;>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > The link for those who wish to join, Ill
> also
> >> add
> >> >> >> this
> >> >> >> >>> link
> >> >> >> >>> > >> onto
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> the
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > new
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > website.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > https://www.hipchat.com/gsModF8CY
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 at 12:12 Michael
> >> MacFadden <
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > michael.macfadden@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > Yeah. Chatting is fine and beneficial. We
> >> just
> >> >> >> need to
> >> >> >> >>> > make
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> sure
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> we
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > capture key decisions and rationale back
> in
> >> the
> >> >> >> list
> >> >> >> >>> for
> >> >> >> >>> > >> all to
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> see.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > ~Michael
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > > On Mar 12, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Evan
> Hughes <
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> wisebaldone@apache.org
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > <javascript:;>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > > It does not so as Ive seen other
> projects
> >> >> state
> >> >> >> this
> >> >> >> >>> > motto
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> "If
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> its
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > not
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > on
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > > the mailing list it didnt happen at
> all",
> >> but
> >> >> >> allows
> >> >> >> >>> > for
> >> >> >> >>> > >> non
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> formal
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > talk
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > > and back and forth discussion realtime.
> >> The
> >> >> >> Monthly
> >> >> >> >>> > >> reports
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> that we
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > talked
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > > about back when we did the hangout
> session
> >> >> >> should
> >> >> >> >>> > >> probably be
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > picked
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > up
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > > again, ill add it to the monthly todo's.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > > On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 at 11:58 Michael
> >> >> MacFadden <
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > michael.macfadden@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > > wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> One follow up question though. Does hip
> >> hat
> >> >> >> store
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> conversations
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > in a
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> publicly accessible manner?  If not, we
> >> need
> >> >> >> to make
> >> >> >> >>> > sure
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> key
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > decisions
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> that come out of chats are captured and
> >> >> >> discussed on
> >> >> >> >>> > the
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> mailing
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > list
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > for
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> all to see.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> ~Michael
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>> On Mar 12, 2016, at 7:15 AM, Evan
> >> Hughes <
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> wisebaldone@apache.org
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > <javascript:;>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>> I would get infra to make us a hipchat
> >> >> >> channel so
> >> >> >> >>> we
> >> >> >> >>> > >> have
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> some
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > place
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > to
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>> talk casually web interface / irc, but
> >> seesm
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >>> > jira's
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> down.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > Looking
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > to
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>> getting this rolling in some way or
> >> another
> >> >> >> by mid
> >> >> >> >>> > week.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>> ~ Evan
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 at 19:48 Evan
> >> Hughes <
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > wisebaldone@apache.org <javascript:;>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>> The client-server protocol would
> >> define a
> >> >> >> protobuf
> >> >> >> >>> > and
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> json
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> rest
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> services
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>> so any language that support protocol
> >> >> buffers
> >> >> >> >>> would
> >> >> >> >>> > be
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> able
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> to
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > make
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > a
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>> client or fallback to the json rest.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 at 19:24 Andreas
> >> Kotes
> >> >> <
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> count-apache.org@flatline.de
> >> <javascript:;>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> FWIW,
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> I also consider the idea pretty good
> >> and
> >> >> >> would
> >> >> >> >>> want
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> stronger
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > decoupling
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> of server/client. I'd be interested
> >> in a
> >> >> >> python
> >> >> >> >>> > client
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > implementation,
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> mostly for CLI and bot integration.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Not sure whether doing a
> client-side C
> >> >> >> >>> > implementation
> >> >> >> >>> > >> of
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> the
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> communication protocol would be best
> >> here
> >> >> >> (so
> >> >> >> >>> > wrapper
> >> >> >> >>> > >> for
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> more
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> languages
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> can follow), or whether native
> Python
> >> >> would
> >> >> >> be
> >> >> >> >>> > >> better. We
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> need
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> something
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> for non-Java folks in any case, I
> >> think.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Cheers,
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>  count
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 10:52:34AM
> >> +1000,
> >> >> >> Evan
> >> >> >> >>> > Hughes
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> Thankyou all for your feedback and
> >> >> >> expressions
> >> >> >> >>> of
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> interests,
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > seems
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> like
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> we
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> may be able to develop some teams
> >> >> together
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >>> make
> >> >> >> >>> > >> this
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> a
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > faster
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> reality
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> than just I. Hopefully we can get
> >> some
> >> >> more
> >> >> >> >>> > people to
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> express
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> interests
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> in
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> this way forward.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> --
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Andreas 'count' Kotes
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Taming computers for humans since
> >> 1990.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> "Don't ask what the world needs. Ask
> >> what
> >> >> >> makes
> >> >> >> >>> you
> >> >> >> >>> > >> come
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> alive,
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > and
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > go
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >> do
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> it.
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Because what the world needs is
> >> people who
> >> >> >> have
> >> >> >> >>> > come
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> alive." --
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > Howard
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Thurman
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > > >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> > >>
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

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