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From Thomas Wrobel <darkfl...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: A Wavy Future
Date Tue, 15 Mar 2016 16:07:59 GMT
Ah, right. I am all for realtime, merely that I was also happy to lose
it if it meant significantly more simple implementation.

>>"Otherwise we can use Robot
>>API - like in https://github.com/vega113/microbox"

Not keen on RobotAPI as every time I read its use it seems to need an
extra server in the chain/
ie;
 ...<>WaveServer <> Google App Engine <> client

It should be possible with the web today to avoid that and have
clients connect directly to the wave server no? (hopefully using the
same protocol as any desktop/mobile client).
Of course, I assume you could run host both servers on the same
hardware, but still seems unnecessary to have that extra step.


--
http://lostagain.nl <-- our company site.
http://fanficmaker.com <-- our, really,really, bad story generator.


On 15 March 2016 at 16:48, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, the intention is to have realtime editing. Otherwise we can use Robot
> API - like in https://github.com/vega113/microbox
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 5:45 PM Thomas Wrobel <darkflame@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Does it need to be OT aware on that scale? I thought that was only
>> needed to have fully realtime blip updating rather then a "edit +
>> submit" system. (whereupon the differences could be calculated
>> separately from the editing)
>> Is the intention then to still have realtime editing ? or is this
>> needed anyway regardless?
>>
>> I admit I only know the basics of OT and am vaguely remembering a
>> conversation about realtime blip editing adding complexity to things.
>>
>> --
>> http://lostagain.nl <-- our company site.
>> http://fanficmaker.com <-- our, really,really, bad story generator.
>>
>>
>> On 15 March 2016 at 16:30, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Not really. You would need to make it OT aware. and then make it
>> efficient.
>> > Lot's of effort.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 5:24 PM Thomas Wrobel <darkflame@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> As a side, I noticed Michael MacFadden mentioned building a rich text
>> >> editor in the browser, this much at least have been done in GWT
>> >> libraries;
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://www.gwtproject.org/javadoc/latest/com/google/gwt/user/client/ui/RichTextArea.html
>> >>
>> >> Its fairly basic, but then, I would assume to start with at least any
>> >> new wave client should stay fairly basic?
>> >> --
>> >> http://lostagain.nl <-- our company site.
>> >> http://fanficmaker.com <-- our, really,really, bad story generator.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 15 March 2016 at 15:48, Yuri Z <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Yeah, we need to re-use the existing editor. Patches would be great!
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 4:46 PM Pablo Ojanguren <pablojan@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I agree with the dependency hell issue and the suggestion for
>> throwing
>> >> >> away the GWT client. This would require a new client-server API
as
>> >> >> suggested, however I think a Rest API won't be enough, because
real
>> >> editing
>> >> >> needs websocket.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I also agree with Michael, developing a new editor is a massive
>> task, so
>> >> >> we should use an existing one and plug it in the new API.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To write again the server in other language would be great, but
I
>> think
>> >> it
>> >> >> requires a huge effort.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I will be happy to help in decoupling the server-client, I can
>> provide
>> >> the
>> >> >> experience from my fork. And I plan to send some patches to Wave
>> soon.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> These are some slides about my fork (swellrt) it could give you
some
>> >> ideas:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1WFDS_m7eyNjBjcdPs0zH496Y9bMSl0_JnSEYGjxNFn0/edit?usp=sharing
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18hMYyECo5EmQsrAb8DT6SkO7LksWVJnhdZmqeCsar4c/edit?usp=sharing
>> >> >>
>> >> >> btw, I would like to start a business providing these SwellRT
>> services.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2016-03-14 23:27 GMT+01:00 Joseph Gentle <me@josephg.com>:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> I've been playing with the idea of starting a company around
a
>> rewrite
>> >> of
>> >> >>> wave for years.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> -J
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Tuesday, 15 March 2016, Adam Bielski <a_bielski@ymail.com.invalid
>> >
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> > Hiya all!I wish I could find out who is potentially interested
in
>> >> >>> creating
>> >> >>> > the WAVE for a commercial service/productwith my seed
>> startup!Cheers!
>> >> >>> > Adam
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >     20:23 poniedziałek, 2016-3-14, Zachary Yaro <zmyaro@gmail.com
>> >> >>> > <javascript:;>> napisał(a):
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >  I am inclined to agree with Yuri—if the alternative
>> implementation
>> >> can
>> >> >>> be
>> >> >>> > developed in parallel around the same protocol, that would
seem
>> to be
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> > best scenario, but the existing codebase should be kept
because
>> it is
>> >> >>> > (AFAIK) the most functional implementation of the protocol.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Zachary Yaro
>> >> >>> > On Mar 14, 2016 15:05, "Yuri Z" <vega113@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > > I think that more "wavy" projects are nice, but IMO
it doesn't
>> >> mean we
>> >> >>> > > should abandon Apache Wave as it is now. I agree
there are a
>> lot of
>> >> >>> > issues
>> >> >>> > > with current code, but I think there's still value
as people can
>> >> see
>> >> >>> what
>> >> >>> > > Wave can potentially be.
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > > On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 8:46 AM Evan Hughes <
>> >> wisebaldone@apache.org
>> >> >>> > <javascript:;>>
>> >> >>> > > wrote:
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> > > > The link for those who wish to join, Ill also
add this link
>> onto
>> >> the
>> >> >>> > new
>> >> >>> > > > website.
>> >> >>> > > >
>> >> >>> > > > https://www.hipchat.com/gsModF8CY
>> >> >>> > > >
>> >> >>> > > > On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 at 12:12 Michael MacFadden
<
>> >> >>> > > > michael.macfadden@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>> >> >>> > > > wrote:
>> >> >>> > > >
>> >> >>> > > > > Yeah. Chatting is fine and beneficial.
We just need to make
>> >> sure
>> >> >>> we
>> >> >>> > > > > capture key decisions and rationale back
in the list for
>> all to
>> >> >>> see.
>> >> >>> > > > >
>> >> >>> > > > > ~Michael
>> >> >>> > > > >
>> >> >>> > > > > > On Mar 12, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Evan
Hughes <
>> >> >>> wisebaldone@apache.org
>> >> >>> > <javascript:;>>
>> >> >>> > > > wrote:
>> >> >>> > > > > >
>> >> >>> > > > > > It does not so as Ive seen other projects
state this motto
>> >> "If
>> >> >>> its
>> >> >>> > > not
>> >> >>> > > > on
>> >> >>> > > > > > the mailing list it didnt happen at
all", but allows for
>> non
>> >> >>> formal
>> >> >>> > > > talk
>> >> >>> > > > > > and back and forth discussion realtime.
The Monthly
>> reports
>> >> >>> that we
>> >> >>> > > > > talked
>> >> >>> > > > > > about back when we did the hangout
session should
>> probably be
>> >> >>> > picked
>> >> >>> > > up
>> >> >>> > > > > > again, ill add it to the monthly todo's.
>> >> >>> > > > > >
>> >> >>> > > > > > On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 at 11:58 Michael
MacFadden <
>> >> >>> > > > > michael.macfadden@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>> >> >>> > > > > > wrote:
>> >> >>> > > > > >
>> >> >>> > > > > >> One follow up question though.
Does hip hat store
>> >> conversations
>> >> >>> > in a
>> >> >>> > > > > >> publicly accessible manner?  If
not, we need to make sure
>> >> key
>> >> >>> > > > decisions
>> >> >>> > > > > >> that come out of chats are captured
and discussed on the
>> >> >>> mailing
>> >> >>> > > list
>> >> >>> > > > > for
>> >> >>> > > > > >> all to see.
>> >> >>> > > > > >>
>> >> >>> > > > > >> ~Michael
>> >> >>> > > > > >>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>> On Mar 12, 2016, at 7:15 AM,
Evan Hughes <
>> >> >>> wisebaldone@apache.org
>> >> >>> > <javascript:;>>
>> >> >>> > > > > wrote:
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>> I would get infra to make
us a hipchat channel so we
>> have
>> >> some
>> >> >>> > > place
>> >> >>> > > > to
>> >> >>> > > > > >>> talk casually web interface
/ irc, but seesm the jira's
>> >> down.
>> >> >>> > > Looking
>> >> >>> > > > > to
>> >> >>> > > > > >>> getting this rolling in some
way or another by mid week.
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>> ~ Evan
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 at
19:48 Evan Hughes <
>> >> >>> > wisebaldone@apache.org <javascript:;>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >> wrote:
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>> The client-server protocol
would define a protobuf and
>> >> json
>> >> >>> rest
>> >> >>> > > > > >> services
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>> so any language that support
protocol buffers would be
>> >> able
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> > > make
>> >> >>> > > > a
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>> client or fallback to
the json rest.
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 at
19:24 Andreas Kotes <
>> >> >>> > > > > >> count-apache.org@flatline.de <javascript:;>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>> wrote:
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> FWIW,
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> I also consider the
idea pretty good and would want
>> >> stronger
>> >> >>> > > > > decoupling
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> of server/client.
I'd be interested in a python client
>> >> >>> > > > > implementation,
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> mostly for CLI and
bot integration.
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Not sure whether doing
a client-side C implementation
>> of
>> >> the
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> communication protocol
would be best here (so wrapper
>> for
>> >> >>> more
>> >> >>> > > > > >> languages
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> can follow), or whether
native Python would be
>> better. We
>> >> >>> need
>> >> >>> > > > > >> something
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> for non-Java folks
in any case, I think.
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Cheers,
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>  count
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 11,
2016 at 10:52:34AM +1000, Evan Hughes
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> Thankyou all for
your feedback and expressions of
>> >> >>> interests,
>> >> >>> > > seems
>> >> >>> > > > > >> like
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> we
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> may be able to
develop some teams together to make
>> this
>> >> a
>> >> >>> > faster
>> >> >>> > > > > >> reality
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> than just I. Hopefully
we can get some more people to
>> >> >>> express
>> >> >>> > > > > >> interests
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> in
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>> this way forward.
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>>
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> --
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Andreas 'count' Kotes
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Taming computers for
humans since 1990.
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> "Don't ask what the
world needs. Ask what makes you
>> come
>> >> >>> alive,
>> >> >>> > > and
>> >> >>> > > > > go
>> >> >>> > > > > >> do
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> it.
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Because what the world
needs is people who have come
>> >> >>> alive." --
>> >> >>> > > > > Howard
>> >> >>> > > > > >>>>> Thurman
>> >> >>> > > > > >>
>> >> >>> > > > >
>> >> >>> > > >
>> >> >>> > >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>

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