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From Ali Lown <>
Subject Re: Wave and Incubation
Date Tue, 24 Mar 2015 00:46:03 GMT

This seems to be the age-old Wave problem.

Regarding your last comment, is there any precedent for a project
leaving Apache and returning at future point - it does seem like a
strange set of circumstances would be needed to trigger it?


On 23 March 2015 at 14:06, Christian Grobmeier <> wrote:
> Hi,
> if Wave moves out this list, Jira etc will be read only, but available.
> Same for the current source code.
> I agree with 1: in the end Apache is a strong brand and also shows that
> you can rely on a few things.
> However at this point we know the benefits of Apache, but can this
> project also fulfill the requirements of ever becoming a proper Apache
> project? Apache is not here to give protection or brand to a codebase or
> "sell something". It's here to work with and help communities.
> The question to ask now is: can Wave have a community? I know the people
> here, and I agree here is a huge kindness around. I appreciate it. But
> what's needed is a community who is also willing to invest some amount
> of time to keep the ball rolling.
> I am fully aware some people here invested time. But a single person can
> not drive an Apache project forward.
> At Apache, everything is around community.
> I ask: can we ever build up a community around Wave which understands
> the principles of Apache, can release code and can keep the project
> alive?
> I am certain about the first two things; I am not so certain about the
> last thing. It's really not much activity here for a long time.
> As others mentioned: Github may lower the barrier. This might be a
> chance to ramp up a community, then return to Apache.
> Cheers
> Christian
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015, at 18:41, Yuri Z wrote:
>> I agree that from the point of view of adding to the source/experimenting
>> -
>> there's no advantage to staying with Apache. However, there are other
>> reasons.
>> 1. Doing a release will signify that the code base is free of legal
>> issues
>> and thus encourage adoption of it by other parties, like,
>> co-meeting, kune etc...
>> 2. The Apache Wave site and this mailing list had become a known place to
>> look for the Wave related info. There's no other well established place
>> like this. The wave-protocol at google code was such place before Apache,
>> but it isn't now. Establishing a new home will confuse new and old Wave
>> followers.
>> 3. Migrating issues from Jira and Wiki will take considerable effort,
>> again... Probably a lot of info will be just lost.
>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 4:03 PM Tobias Pfeiffer <>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I guess this is my first post to this list, even though I am subscribed
>> > for a year or so know and "following" the discussions here.
>> >
>> > The technology in Wave seems quite amazing to me (in particular the
>> > federation part, which hardly any commercial entity would add to their
>> > product out of a business interest) and I would love to see the project
>> > flourish, but – just judging from what I saw here on the mailing list –
>> > I was always wondering if this project is going anywhere from its
>> > current state. I don't know the project and its history very well, but
>> > it seems to me that even *if* it was possible to make a release or
>> > convince Apache that Wave should stay in the incubator, I don't see how
>> > overall progress should be made.
>> >
>> > My feeling is that moving out of Apache to, say, Github (not
>> > Sourceforge, though...) can't make anything worse, but it *might* lower
>> > the barrier to collaboration.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Tobias
>> >
>> >

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