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From Zachary Yaro <zmy...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Wave Kickstarter
Date Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:07:38 GMT
@Thomas, if you like Java and GWT, you are in luck because there is already
a wave project using those (I refer, of course, to WIAB).  I think having
Joseph's project be done in pure JavaScript (and I do prefer writing my JS
directly rather than using another language that “compiles” into JS) is a
great idea because it gives those of us who do *not* prefer Java a bigger
way to contribute to the wave ecosystem.


—Zachary Yaro


On 1 December 2013 06:47, Thomas Wrobel <darkflame@gmail.com> wrote:

> " I still want a web client, but it should be
> written in pure javascript."
>
> GWT is already pure javascript. Writing "Directly" rather then via Java
> doesn't give any real advantages in the end result - it just means you rule
> out code sharing between client and server, an give yourself more work in
> terms of writing around browser differences and having to optimize for the
> web. There's things other then GWT that can do that, but raw javascript
> just adds a tone more work to web client development.
>
> That said, I pretty much agree with everything else.
> I would suggest, however, you need a few people ready to work on specific
> goals for a specific amount. And what can be achieved is kept very clear.
> Unfortunately no one will understand a kickstarter talking about OT. (or,
> not enough to get the money I think). It all needs to be put into real
> terms.
> Multiple clients and use's with a single federate realtime protocol is
> still a very big deal - no one has experience of that at the moment. The
> hard part is getting across all the use-case's for it. Or, rather, the
> specific ones you plan to make possible with the kickstarter.
>
> For my part, I am happy again to contribute (for free) whenever there is a
> separation of the GWT client. Or even a clean client/server protocol to
> build a new web client from stretch.
>
> Additionally, I have an Augmented Reality specific client application I
> wrote, coded for Android phones. The idea was anyone could annotate
> anything anywhere, and share it with whoever they want. The app is working
> (mostly)...except it has no sever to connect too. Nothing at the moment
> forfills the requirement. Once theres a client/server protocol to a wave
> server I could very quickly put out this (imho) rather cool Android client
> and I think it will attack a fair bit of attention.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~
> Thomas & Bertines online review show:
> http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html
> Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :)
>
>
> On 1 December 2013 06:09, Angus Turner <admin@theangus.org> wrote:
>
> > That's actually a really good idea. Id be happy to help out with
> > organising.
> >
> > It sounds perfect for Wave, as there's tonnes of interest but not much
> > programming ability.
> >
> > I would be interested in helping out with the actual programming but my
> > expertise is in python not Java.
> >
> > On Sunday, 1 December 2013, Joseph Gentle wrote:
> >
> > > I still really want to make the wave platform we've been talking about
> > > for awhile. I just don't have any time because I need to work to eat.
> > >
> > > So I've spent the last month thinking about running a kickstarter to
> > > fund the work. Christian's email was really timely.
> > >
> > >
> > > I want arbitrary JSON documents, or arbitrary embedding like we talked
> > > about a few months ago.
> > >
> > > I want a protocol based on real P2P algorithms rather than the hacky
> > > mess we have at the moment with trees of servers connecting via an
> > > XMPP extension
> > >
> > > I want the same fundamental protocol to work server-server or
> > > server-client. The OT stuff should work like git.
> > >
> > > No single person can maintain our 500k of legacy java code. I want to
> > > write a better version with much cleaner separation of OT protocol and
> > > application specifics. I still want a web client, but it should be
> > > written in pure javascript.
> > >
> > > Messages should be cryptographically secure from snooping.
> > >
> > >
> > > The way I see it, there's fundamentally three pieces that make up wave:
> > >
> > > 1. A set of OT primitives which allow peers to generate & interpret
> > > operations
> > > 2. A platform on top of (1) for exchanging operations between networked
> > > peers
> > > 3. An application on top of (2) which is trying to replace email
> > >
> > > These pieces should be separate from one another, and usable in other
> > > contexts.
> > >
> > > I have a clear idea of how we can make (1) and (2) work. The OT part
> > > we've talked about on the list and I've been slowly prototyping out
> > > here: http://github.com/josephg/tp2stuff
> > >
> > > I have a bunch of applications I want to build on top of a platform
> > > like this. For example, I want my text editor, compiler & unit tests
> > > to all talk to one another so my text editor doesn't need
> > > language-specific completion or syntax checking, and so my friends can
> > > jump in and help me code.
> > >
> > > I don't know what the best way to build (3) is - but I'm more than
> > > happy to build the platform that a new kind of email could be built on
> > > top of. Maybe the current WIAB design is totally fine for that part -
> > > though I want end-to-end encryption.
> > >
> > > I don't know when the right time to do this would be. I don't know if
> > > I should work alone or if we should put a team together (Hi Ali!). If
> > > I were to do this properly it would take about a month of prep to get
> > > a kickstarter together, and if it is successful I'd want to quit my
> > > job to do it. I think it'd take me about 6 months to a year of work to
> > > get a stable, secure platform working (probably closer to a year), and
> > > I'm also not allowed to stay in the US without an employer on my visa.
> > >
> > > The earliest this will probably happen is the end of the year.
> > >
> > > Kickstarter might also not be the right way to fund it. Cryptocat was
> > > funded in 2012 mostly by Radio Free Asia's Open Tech Fund[1] to the
> > > tune of ~$100k. A kickstarter would give us users (great) and
> > > publicity, but the right private sponsor might also work.
> > >
> > > Maybe the most contentious part of all, I don't think I'd want to call
> > > it wave. But it really would be the grandchild of what we've been
> > > working on all this time.
> > >
> > > Thats my thoughts. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. As I say,
> > > I'm keen to build this, but I'm too old to live on ramen in a granny
> > > shack. This thing we've been working toward has real value, and could
> > > be put to great effect if we can actually make it good.
> > >
> > > -J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] https://crypto.cat/documents/report-1213.pdf
> > > https://www.opentechfund.org/
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks
> > Angus Turner
> > e:  hi@theangus.org
> > m: 0424972516
> >
>

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