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From John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Wave Kickstarter
Date Thu, 05 Dec 2013 16:28:01 GMT
Joseph,

You may be right, one platform can't do everything, but I am hopeful that
we can get a platform with a 1) data model 2) communications/syncing model
and 3) and apps development model that can accommodate the goals for my
Nkommo project. We start by walking, suss it out and then move on. If I get
involved in this again, my timeline is probably more aggressive, for those
who want to seek funding sooner.

All the best,

John Blossom

email: jblossom@gmail.com
phone: 203.293.8511
google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Joseph Gentle <josephg@gmail.com> wrote:

> Will do. As I said, I don't anticipate starting the kickstarter for
> about a year, though I want to do preliminary work (prototyping out
> some of the protocols and such) now.
>
> John I agree that (1) and (2) are the most interesting parts. But I'm
> not sure that this is the right tool to build *everything* on top of.
> We should start with the platform and get people building stuff on top
> of it.
>
> -J
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 12:05 PM, John Blossom <jblossom@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Joseph,
> >
> > Thanks for chiming in. I'd be interested in getting crowdsourced
> financing
> > for this also. We don't have a major corporation funding our lifestyles
> to
> > enable such work, so we need something.
> >
> > I am in general agreement with your overall plan, though as I've stated
> > before, once you have 1) and 2) done right then there's so much more that
> > the platform could/should do besides an email replacement. I do think
> that
> > the "internet of things" is a key opportunity for such a communications
> and
> > data management model, merged with secure, network-independent
> > communications. Nkommo can't really move forward without that combo.
> >
> > As for the name, all things are possible once it's on Github, it seems. A
> > fresh start might be in order.
> >
> > Please keep me in the loop, I'd be glad to help push things in this
> > direction. Without funding, we're nowhere.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > John Blossom
> >
> > email: jblossom@gmail.com
> > phone: 203.293.8511
> > google+: google.com/+JohnBlossom
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Joseph Gentle <josephg@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I still really want to make the wave platform we've been talking about
> >> for awhile. I just don't have any time because I need to work to eat.
> >>
> >> So I've spent the last month thinking about running a kickstarter to
> >> fund the work. Christian's email was really timely.
> >>
> >>
> >> I want arbitrary JSON documents, or arbitrary embedding like we talked
> >> about a few months ago.
> >>
> >> I want a protocol based on real P2P algorithms rather than the hacky
> >> mess we have at the moment with trees of servers connecting via an
> >> XMPP extension
> >>
> >> I want the same fundamental protocol to work server-server or
> >> server-client. The OT stuff should work like git.
> >>
> >> No single person can maintain our 500k of legacy java code. I want to
> >> write a better version with much cleaner separation of OT protocol and
> >> application specifics. I still want a web client, but it should be
> >> written in pure javascript.
> >>
> >> Messages should be cryptographically secure from snooping.
> >>
> >>
> >> The way I see it, there's fundamentally three pieces that make up wave:
> >>
> >> 1. A set of OT primitives which allow peers to generate & interpret
> >> operations
> >> 2. A platform on top of (1) for exchanging operations between networked
> >> peers
> >> 3. An application on top of (2) which is trying to replace email
> >>
> >> These pieces should be separate from one another, and usable in other
> >> contexts.
> >>
> >> I have a clear idea of how we can make (1) and (2) work. The OT part
> >> we've talked about on the list and I've been slowly prototyping out
> >> here: http://github.com/josephg/tp2stuff
> >>
> >> I have a bunch of applications I want to build on top of a platform
> >> like this. For example, I want my text editor, compiler & unit tests
> >> to all talk to one another so my text editor doesn't need
> >> language-specific completion or syntax checking, and so my friends can
> >> jump in and help me code.
> >>
> >> I don't know what the best way to build (3) is - but I'm more than
> >> happy to build the platform that a new kind of email could be built on
> >> top of. Maybe the current WIAB design is totally fine for that part -
> >> though I want end-to-end encryption.
> >>
> >> I don't know when the right time to do this would be. I don't know if
> >> I should work alone or if we should put a team together (Hi Ali!). If
> >> I were to do this properly it would take about a month of prep to get
> >> a kickstarter together, and if it is successful I'd want to quit my
> >> job to do it. I think it'd take me about 6 months to a year of work to
> >> get a stable, secure platform working (probably closer to a year), and
> >> I'm also not allowed to stay in the US without an employer on my visa.
> >>
> >> The earliest this will probably happen is the end of the year.
> >>
> >> Kickstarter might also not be the right way to fund it. Cryptocat was
> >> funded in 2012 mostly by Radio Free Asia's Open Tech Fund[1] to the
> >> tune of ~$100k. A kickstarter would give us users (great) and
> >> publicity, but the right private sponsor might also work.
> >>
> >> Maybe the most contentious part of all, I don't think I'd want to call
> >> it wave. But it really would be the grandchild of what we've been
> >> working on all this time.
> >>
> >> Thats my thoughts. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. As I say,
> >> I'm keen to build this, but I'm too old to live on ramen in a granny
> >> shack. This thing we've been working toward has real value, and could
> >> be put to great effect if we can actually make it good.
> >>
> >> -J
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [1] https://crypto.cat/documents/report-1213.pdf
> >> https://www.opentechfund.org/
> >>
>

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