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From John Blossom <>
Subject Re: Incubation status
Date Mon, 02 Dec 2013 15:51:32 GMT

Although I support the incubator's goals, it seems that there is probably a
fundamental mismatch between the state of Apache Wave and where and how
Wave needs to develop.

I am one of the people who had to stand back from Wave a while back. I was
enthusiastic about the possibility of Apache acting as a strong framework
for Wave, but it seems that it's at the wrong stage of development to
benefit from everything that Apache offers. I must also admit that the new
Gmail inbox doesn't draw me to forum posts as much as it used to. The
community tools of Apache aren't getting my attention, for whatever reason.

Wave is trying to define lots of new bits of technology that don't
necessarily have a fixed architecture yet or even a place in other fixed
architectures. Months later, we're still at a point where we have a body of
code that's still largely a specific user client rather than an agile
development platform that can enable a wide variety of apps via a common
set of communications and data management protocols and standards. Most
importantly from my own perspective, it's not moved significantly towards
an architecture that could be strongly mobile first with both synchronous
and asynchronous publishing. So for me, it's not meeting the goals of what
Wave 3.0 could be. At the same time you have initiatives like Motorola's
Project Ara for open source mobile hardware development that would be ideal
for some of the things that Wave could do in developing nations, as well as
open source mobile OS initiatives, so open and mobile as a combination are

I wish that I were still an active coder (sometimes), but I am not, and I
am not going to be able to reach my goals without committed coders. But for
that commitment, we need more consensus about what Wave should try to be in
an increasingly crowded market for collaborative services. From that
perspective, Wave seems to need a bit more direction than the Apache
framework can manage at this point. There's not a body of code that meets a
well defined market objective - that's a profile for success in Apache, it
seems, looking at some of the other projects. Open or not, every platform
must find a need and fill it.

Finally, since commitment seems to be partially a factor of funding,
perhaps a more independent project on Github (assuming that there are no
remnant Google claims) might make it easier for independent teams to
attract funding via crowdsourcing platforms once a more concrete goal has
been defined. Once such a project met with some initial success, perhaps
there could be a body of code that could be nurtured in the Apache
framework at a later time.

I am sorry to have dropped out of this loop, but I have had to focus on
money-generating opportunities more intently, if I could balance that with
Wave a bit more easily then it would be easier to focus, no doubt. But life
goes on, and I know that Wave will always go on. If there are team members
who feel that I can contribute positively in this transition, feel free to
stay in touch.

All the best,

John Blossom

phone: 203.293.8511

On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 5:02 AM, Christian Grobmeier <>wrote:

> Hi folks,
> it seems as the first steam with the new people is gone.
> I believe it makes sense to discuss if the incubator is the right place.
> Incubation has a specific goal: forming a team which can do releases and
> is - in a way - active.
> I see there is little activity at all. The only person i have seen working
> on the codebase recently was Ali.
> He also was the release manager of package which had trouble to receive
> the necessary votes from its own team.
> My hope was this would change in the past months. But today I have only
> little hope.
> Playing the devils advocate I ask you (again):
> Do you folks believe the incubator can ever be completed as it is now?
> If you believe yes, please let me know why or how we can achieve that goal.
> Otherwise my recommendation is to move Wave to GitHub and close the
> incubation until the community around Wave has grown.
> Thoughts?
> Christian
> ---
> @grobmeier
> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB

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