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From Angus Turner <>
Subject Re: Wave Kickstarter
Date Sun, 01 Dec 2013 05:09:26 GMT
That's actually a really good idea. Id be happy to help out with

It sounds perfect for Wave, as there's tonnes of interest but not much
programming ability.

I would be interested in helping out with the actual programming but my
expertise is in python not Java.

On Sunday, 1 December 2013, Joseph Gentle wrote:

> I still really want to make the wave platform we've been talking about
> for awhile. I just don't have any time because I need to work to eat.
> So I've spent the last month thinking about running a kickstarter to
> fund the work. Christian's email was really timely.
> I want arbitrary JSON documents, or arbitrary embedding like we talked
> about a few months ago.
> I want a protocol based on real P2P algorithms rather than the hacky
> mess we have at the moment with trees of servers connecting via an
> XMPP extension
> I want the same fundamental protocol to work server-server or
> server-client. The OT stuff should work like git.
> No single person can maintain our 500k of legacy java code. I want to
> write a better version with much cleaner separation of OT protocol and
> application specifics. I still want a web client, but it should be
> written in pure javascript.
> Messages should be cryptographically secure from snooping.
> The way I see it, there's fundamentally three pieces that make up wave:
> 1. A set of OT primitives which allow peers to generate & interpret
> operations
> 2. A platform on top of (1) for exchanging operations between networked
> peers
> 3. An application on top of (2) which is trying to replace email
> These pieces should be separate from one another, and usable in other
> contexts.
> I have a clear idea of how we can make (1) and (2) work. The OT part
> we've talked about on the list and I've been slowly prototyping out
> here:
> I have a bunch of applications I want to build on top of a platform
> like this. For example, I want my text editor, compiler & unit tests
> to all talk to one another so my text editor doesn't need
> language-specific completion or syntax checking, and so my friends can
> jump in and help me code.
> I don't know what the best way to build (3) is - but I'm more than
> happy to build the platform that a new kind of email could be built on
> top of. Maybe the current WIAB design is totally fine for that part -
> though I want end-to-end encryption.
> I don't know when the right time to do this would be. I don't know if
> I should work alone or if we should put a team together (Hi Ali!). If
> I were to do this properly it would take about a month of prep to get
> a kickstarter together, and if it is successful I'd want to quit my
> job to do it. I think it'd take me about 6 months to a year of work to
> get a stable, secure platform working (probably closer to a year), and
> I'm also not allowed to stay in the US without an employer on my visa.
> The earliest this will probably happen is the end of the year.
> Kickstarter might also not be the right way to fund it. Cryptocat was
> funded in 2012 mostly by Radio Free Asia's Open Tech Fund[1] to the
> tune of ~$100k. A kickstarter would give us users (great) and
> publicity, but the right private sponsor might also work.
> Maybe the most contentious part of all, I don't think I'd want to call
> it wave. But it really would be the grandchild of what we've been
> working on all this time.
> Thats my thoughts. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. As I say,
> I'm keen to build this, but I'm too old to live on ramen in a granny
> shack. This thing we've been working toward has real value, and could
> be put to great effect if we can actually make it good.
> -J
> [1]

Angus Turner
m: 0424972516

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