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From Thomas Wrobel <>
Subject Re: Incubation status
Date Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:28:21 GMT
". No need to discuss if somebody
has experience in GWT or not. IF you want to contribute, just DO it.
Checkout code, send patches. Its open to all."

I think the point was that having experience with GWT does
not necessarily give you the experience enough to make contributions.  I
could easily donate enough time to fix client side stuff....but last time I
tried (which I confess was almost a year ago), I couldn't make head nor
tails of how to put my knowledge of GWT to use. The shear massive amount of
code and how it interrelates was just overwhelming.
Thus all I have ever contributed was a passage on the history of Wave. I
have thus have no rights whatsoever to say were wave should go, or how.
Thats indeed upto the real contributors.
But I do think its (probably) somewhat usefull for people like me and Frank
R. to list our skills, and whats holding us back from contributing. For me
personally its not the bureaucracy of Apache, but rather the
but the fact that I have to work out how to compile and run my own server
even to make the most minor client change.
I have no specific objections to GitHub, I just dont think it will help

Perhaps if other "potential coders" gave reasons for their lack of commits
it would help paint a picture of whats holding Wave back?

Thomas & Bertines online review show:
Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :)

On 29 November 2013 14:07, Christian Grobmeier <> wrote:

> On 29 Nov 2013, at 13:50, Raphael Bircher wrote:
>  Hi Upayavira
>> Am 29.11.13 13:24, schrieb Upayavira:
>>> The way open source communities such as this one work, the road map
>>> needs to be defined by the people doing the work. It would be easy for
>>> some of us to come up with a cool roadmap, but if coders aren't behind
>>> it, it will be pointless effort.
>> That's true. I have just the feeling, that wave is a bit loost in space.
>> I don't talk about a long time roadmap. I talk about a short roadmap, from
>> release to release.
> We have had a roadmap. It was simple: push out the next release.
> Even for release checking and voting were hardly people available.
> Ali Lown put a lot of time into the RC and got only less responses. To
> less.
> At the same time a lot of people showed up here and discussed potential
> options for future directions of Wave.
> When the dust settled the discussions had some kind of a consens but
> (almost?) nobody put in actual code.
> More than people discussing the future Wave needs people creating the
> future - writing code.
> Everybody on this list can easily check out the codebase and send back
> patches. No need to discuss if somebody
> has experience in GWT or not. IF you want to contribute, just DO it.
> Checkout code, send patches. Its open to all.
>>> If folks are interested in coding Wave, whether at Apache or elsewhere,
>>> I'd encourage them to jump in and start suggesting where they think it
>>> should go.
>> I just want to say, that in my point of view, the Apache Structure is not
>> the problem. I beleve a move to GitHub will not help for the long term. For
>> my point of view, it's the wrong way to adress the problem.
> The incubator has a specific goal: create a community around a product
> which is able to self govern.
> Wave has not managed to build up a community since 2010-12-04. So far
> there are many interested and curious people but nobody
> actually works on the project.
> With discussing the end of incubation i don't want to solve the actual
> problem of this project. Actually I can't.
> The people around this project need to that.
> The incubator is a complicated environment with many rules. With going out
> of the incubator this project would have to follow less rules. Patches can
> be accepted more easily (github is easier than the ASF in that perspective).
> I have no problem with leaving Wave a little longer here. But so far I
> don't see any sense in doing so as nothing happens here.
> And I say this even when I like Wave and with deep respect to the few
> people who actually contributed in the past.
> Cheers
> Christian
>> Greetings Raphael
> ---
> @grobmeier
> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB

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