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From "Christian Grobmeier" <>
Subject Re: Incubation status
Date Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:40:23 GMT
On 29 Nov 2013, at 14:28, Thomas Wrobel wrote:

> ". No need to discuss if somebody
> has experience in GWT or not. IF you want to contribute, just DO it.
> Checkout code, send patches. Its open to all."
> I think the point was that having experience with GWT does
> not necessarily give you the experience enough to make contributions.  
> I
> could easily donate enough time to fix client side stuff....but last 
> time I
> tried (which I confess was almost a year ago), I couldn't make head 
> nor
> tails of how to put my knowledge of GWT to use. The shear massive 
> amount of
> code and how it interrelates was just overwhelming.
> Thus all I have ever contributed was a passage on the history of Wave. 
> I
> have thus have no rights whatsoever to say were wave should go, or 
> how.
> Thats indeed upto the real contributors.
> But I do think its (probably) somewhat usefull for people like me and 
> Frank
> R. to list our skills, and whats holding us back from contributing. 
> For me
> personally its not the bureaucracy of Apache, but rather the
> but the fact that I have to work out how to compile and run my own 
> server
> even to make the most minor client change.
> I have no specific objections to GitHub, I just dont think it will 
> help
> either.
> Perhaps if other "potential coders" gave reasons for their lack of 
> commits
> it would help paint a picture of whats holding Wave back?

When i remember right (you could search the mailing archive for details 
if you like)
the reasons are: no time. And so far no company is backing the 
development of Wave.

As sad as it sounds, i tend to believe that code bases as huge as Wave 
are hardly
maintained only in prime time.

I understood that your personal problem was not to know where to start.
This guidance of course needs to come from the current maintainers. Its 
part of the apache
way to pick you up from a certain place and help you to grow into the 


> ~~~
> Thomas & Bertines online review show:
> Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :)
> On 29 November 2013 14:07, Christian Grobmeier <> 
> wrote:
>> On 29 Nov 2013, at 13:50, Raphael Bircher wrote:
>> Hi Upayavira
>>> Am 29.11.13 13:24, schrieb Upayavira:
>>>> The way open source communities such as this one work, the road map
>>>> needs to be defined by the people doing the work. It would be easy 
>>>> for
>>>> some of us to come up with a cool roadmap, but if coders aren't 
>>>> behind
>>>> it, it will be pointless effort.
>>> That's true. I have just the feeling, that wave is a bit loost in 
>>> space.
>>> I don't talk about a long time roadmap. I talk about a short 
>>> roadmap, from
>>> release to release.
>> We have had a roadmap. It was simple: push out the next release.
>> Even for release checking and voting were hardly people available.
>> Ali Lown put a lot of time into the RC and got only less responses. 
>> To
>> less.
>> At the same time a lot of people showed up here and discussed 
>> potential
>> options for future directions of Wave.
>> When the dust settled the discussions had some kind of a consens but
>> (almost?) nobody put in actual code.
>> More than people discussing the future Wave needs people creating the
>> future - writing code.
>> Everybody on this list can easily check out the codebase and send 
>> back
>> patches. No need to discuss if somebody
>> has experience in GWT or not. IF you want to contribute, just DO it.
>> Checkout code, send patches. Its open to all.
>>>> If folks are interested in coding Wave, whether at Apache or 
>>>> elsewhere,
>>>> I'd encourage them to jump in and start suggesting where they think 
>>>> it
>>>> should go.
>>> I just want to say, that in my point of view, the Apache Structure 
>>> is not
>>> the problem. I beleve a move to GitHub will not help for the long 
>>> term. For
>>> my point of view, it's the wrong way to adress the problem.
>> The incubator has a specific goal: create a community around a 
>> product
>> which is able to self govern.
>> Wave has not managed to build up a community since 2010-12-04. So far
>> there are many interested and curious people but nobody
>> actually works on the project.
>> With discussing the end of incubation i don't want to solve the 
>> actual
>> problem of this project. Actually I can't.
>> The people around this project need to that.
>> The incubator is a complicated environment with many rules. With 
>> going out
>> of the incubator this project would have to follow less rules. 
>> Patches can
>> be accepted more easily (github is easier than the ASF in that 
>> perspective).
>> I have no problem with leaving Wave a little longer here. But so far 
>> I
>> don't see any sense in doing so as nothing happens here.
>> And I say this even when I like Wave and with deep respect to the few
>> people who actually contributed in the past.
>> Cheers
>> Christian
>>> Greetings Raphael
>> ---
>> @grobmeier
>> GPG: 0xA5CC90DB


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