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From 郭晓峰 <lamu...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Wave and OpenOffice
Date Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:57:46 GMT
Nice, Chuanwu!


On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:12 AM, John Blossom <jblossom@gmail.com> wrote:

> Very exciting! John
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:37 AM, 田传武 <i@goodow.com> wrote:
>
> > I just re-implement Drive Realtime API using wave related open source
> > projects.
> > realtime-operation <https://github.com/goodow/realtime-operation> uses
> the
> > ot algorithm from Apache Wave
> > realtime-channel <https://github.com/goodow/realtime-channel> and
> > realtime-server <https://github.com/goodow/realtime-server> are
> repackaged
> > from Walkaround
> > realtime-model <https://github.com/goodow/realtime-model> is a java port
> > of
> > Google Drive Realtime Javascript API
> >
> >
> > 2013/6/17 Zachary “Gamer_Z.” Yaro <zmyaro@gmail.com>
> >
> > > You mean the code under-the-hood of the Drive Realtime API is the same
> > code
> > > that powers Walkaround?  Or do you mean you are working on using the
> > > Realtime API to power something like Walkaround?
> > >
> > >
> > > —Zachary “Gamer_Z.” Yaro
> > >
> > >
> > > On 17 June 2013 08:40, 田传武 <i@goodow.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I implemented Google Drive Realtime API based on Walkaround.
> > > > See https://github.com/goodow/realtime
> > > > and http://realtimeplayground.goodow.com/
> > > >
> > > > It supports android, javascript(using gwt-export) and
> objective-c(using
> > > > j2objc).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2013/6/16 Joseph Gentle <josephg@gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Dave <wave@glark.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > > On 16/06/13 09:29, Michael MacFadden wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> All,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What we would need to do to support integration with Open
> Office,
> > or
> > > > any
> > > > > >> other app, is abstract our OT Core Engine in two ways. 
First it
> > > would
> > > > > >> need to become a stand alone service that other apps could
hook
> in
> > > to.
> > > > > >> Second we would need to change the operations to be more
generic
> > > than
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> current set that are tied to the wave conversation model.
The
> > > current
> > > > OT
> > > > > >> model is not flexible enough to become a core OT framework
for
> > other
> > > > > apps
> > > > > >> to use.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Have you had a chance to look at the SLOB layer in google
> > walkaround
> > > > [1]?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <quote>
> > > > > > Much of the walkaround code is not specific to Wave, but factored
> > out
> > > > as
> > > > > a
> > > > > > separate, more general collaboration layer that manages shared
> live
> > > > > objects.
> > > > > > These objects can be modified by multiple clients at the same
> time,
> > > > with
> > > > > > changes made by any client immediately broadcast to all others.
> The
> > > > Wave
> > > > > > application is built on top of this, but the live collaboration
> > layer
> > > > is
> > > > > > flexible enough to support other applications.
> > > > > > </quote>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's apache licensed, and took at least some insperation from
> > > ShareJS.
> > > > >
> > > > > It was sort of the other way around. ShareJS's OT architecture was
> > > > > inspired by hallway chats with Dan Danilatos. Walkaround was
> written
> > > > > at the same time as sharejs. Its all very incestuous.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I understand it, walkaround's architecture is similar to ShareJS
> > > > > except that out of the box walkaround only has support for wave's
> > > > > wavelet/blip ot model.
> > > > >
> > > > > -J
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] http://code.google.com/p/walkaround/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> One of the things that always struck me in Wave was that
the
> > > > > conversation
> > > > > >> model used OT but that the gadget API did not.  This is
in part
> > > > because
> > > > > >> gadgets had their own data model which had nothing to do
with
> > > > > >> conversations (lines, annotations, etc) which were not supported
> > > well
> > > > by
> > > > > >> Wave's OT.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The google real time API is a step in that direction, but
there
> > are
> > > a
> > > > > >> couple problems with it.  1) It is a javascript API rather
than
> a
> > > > > service.
> > > > > >> 2) You are forced to use it's data types rather than your
own,
> and
> > > 3)
> > > > > your
> > > > > >> data must be stored on Drive.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I have seen two proprietary OT engines that seem to work
well
> > acting
> > > > as
> > > > > a
> > > > > >> service and one open source one.  If we are to grow, I think
> this
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > >> direction the OT code needs to go in.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I think Joseph and I (so far as I can tell) are probably
the two
> > > most
> > > > > >> interested people in doing this.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I think we need to develop mini communities within wave.
 Those
> > that
> > > > are
> > > > > >> focused on the OT / CC Stack, those that are focused on
clients,
> > > those
> > > > > >> that are interested in federation, etc.  If we can pair
up some
> > > folks
> > > > > that
> > > > > >> are interested in each of these areas (and others), I think
we
> can
> > > > make
> > > > > >> some progress.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ~Michael
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On 6/15/13 8:25 PM, "Yuri Z" <vega113@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Just a note - the rendering to static HTML is experimental
and
> > > wasn't
> > > > > >>> actually submitted to official Apache Wave repo since
there was
> > no
> > > > > >>> agreement on the way on how this should implemented
right
> without
> > > > > >>> breaking
> > > > > >>> static bindings when compiling from GWT to Javascript.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Zachary ³Gamer_Z.²
Yaro
> > > > > >>> <zmyaro@gmail.com>wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> @Fleeky, Yuri actually added some
> > > > > >>>> code<
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://github.com/vega113/WaveInCloud/tree/master/src/org/waveprotocol/b
> > > > > >>>> ox/server/rpc/render
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> WIAB for static HTML rendering, so that could be
a solution to
> > > your
> > > > > >>>> publishing problems.  In addition, Google Wave,
Rizzoma, and
> (I*
> > > > > *think)
> > > > > >>>> WIAB (with Yuri's code) support exporting to HTML
or PDF.  Is
> > that
> > > > > what
> > > > > >>>> you
> > > > > >>>> were asking for?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> @John, I definitely like the idea of being able
to log into a
> > wave
> > > > > >>>> server
> > > > > >>>> from OpenOffice and edit waves through it, but I
think we
> need a
> > > > > >>>> standardized wave client-server protocol first.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> ‹Zachary ³Gamer_Z.² Yaro
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On 15 June 2013 12:34, Fleeky Flanco <fleeky@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> john, i was infact using wave as a google docs
replacement
> for
> > a
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> while it
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> worked pretty good the only problem i had with
it was that i
> > > > couldnt
> > > > > >>>>> 'publish' static updates to a front facing page
to share with
> > > > people
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> who
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> didnt feel like registering on my wave server.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> an openoffice for wave would be extremely usefull,
and could
> > have
> > > > an
> > > > > >>>>> extremely large impact imo. wave is also already
very very
> > close
> > > to
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> having
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> this funcitonality. etherpad lite sortof already
does this,
> > but i
> > > > > kept
> > > > > >>>>> going back to wave because it was actually more
responsive,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> featurefull,
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> and actually crashed less.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 9:29 AM, John Blossom
<
> > > jblossom@gmail.com>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I had the down-the-road thought just now
that I wanted to
> put
> > > into
> > > > > >>>>>> circulation before I forgot about it.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> One of the challenges that we will face
in developing open
> > > source
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Wave
> > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> that Google and others - but mostly Google
- are out there
> > using
> > > > > >>>>>> operational transform technologies also.
So far the Google
> > Drive
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Realtime
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> API hasn't had much impact, but it's being
"demoed"
> > successfully
> > > > in
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Drive
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> apps like Docs and Presentations.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> The advantages of an open source Wave implementation
are, of
> > > > course,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> that
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> people can own their own data and identity
management
> without
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> having to
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> rely on a specific vendor's infrastructure.
But the flip
> side
> > of
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> that
> > > > > >>>> is
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> that you have to look carefully at infrastructure
that
> > > integrates
> > > > OT
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> understand what you have to do similarly
to showcase your
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> technologies.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> That brings me to OpenOffice. At some point
it will be
> > > beneficial
> > > > to
> > > > > >>>>>> consider how the Wave API can enable apps
in the OpenOffice
> > > suite
> > > > to
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> take
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> advantage of OT technologies in Wave and
its other various
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> features. In
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> fact, it's not unthinkable that an OpenOffice
for Wave
> variant
> > > > might
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> not
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> be
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> feasible at some point, maintaining a familiar
office
> > automation
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> paradigm
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> as a user interface for those who relate
to that sort of
> tool
> > > but
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> having
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> the power of Wave to drive collaborative
document editing,
> > > > comments,
> > > > > >>>>>> embedded apps and so on, with Wave data
structures
> underneath
> > > the
> > > > OO
> > > > > >>>>>> interface.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Just idle thoughts for now, but if we make
good progress
> over
> > > the
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> next
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> several months, it's a sub-project that
may help to attract
> > more
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> developers
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> to Wave technologies.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> All the best,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> John Blossom
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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