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From John Blossom <jblos...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: A Call To Developers
Date Fri, 14 Jun 2013 18:57:21 GMT
Christian,

You're preaching to the choir. I understand clearly.

John

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Christian Grobmeier <grobmeier@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:46 PM, John Blossom <jblossom@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Christian,
> >
> > I leave it up to the developers to make those decisions. Whatever tools
> > help the project to move forward best for both the immediate efforts and
> > the long-term managing of the brand are the right tools. Knowing that
> > GitHub is a community that attracts many leading edge developers in its
> own
> > right, having at least a mirror of the code in that environment certainly
> > can't hurt.
>
> Sure, its about the project community to decide.
>
> That being said, one needs to know that GitHub is a tool, but the ASF
> is more than "just" that. The ASF is a Foundation which protects you
> (as a developer)
> and the project from legal problems. The whole ASF is a big community.
> GitHub is a set of tools, and the people forking and pull-requesting
> there are not necessary
> a community (of course they can become one). Still, the legal umbrella
> is non-existent
> there, except you build it up on your own.
>
> There are lot more of differences between a place like GitHub and the ASF.
>
> For example, GitHub is a company which hosts your code. In most cases you
> have
> no chance to join the board or influence company decisions.
>
> At the ASF you can become a member - or lets say "shareholder" - of
> the foundation.
> You can join the board (if elected) and have an influence as member.
>
> The ASF of course requires a few things to successfully protect
> people/projects.
> One of them is a canonical hosted scm. A mirror to GitHub is of course
> possible
> and never the problem. From ASF view it would be a problem to use GitHub
> as main scm.
>
> If there are more questions on exactly these things, I can offer to
> join a Google Hangout
> and of course will try to answer all questions by mailing list.
> Upayavira has huge
> knowledge what the ASF offers too.
>
> Cheers
> Christian
>
>
> > All the best,
> >
> > John Blossom
> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Christian Grobmeier <
> grobmeier@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 3:27 AM, John Blossom <jblossom@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > Github+Apache+Wave=awesomeness.
> >> >
> >> > John
> >>
> >> Please be aware, that for legal reasons all code must live on ASF
> >> platforms first.
> >> We have a mirror on github: https://github.com/apache
> >>
> >> But in first place, we need to deal with code ourselves. We cannot
> >> utilize GitHub as
> >> first class repository and sync back.
> >>
> >> This has already caused some pain points in the past, but our infra
> >> managed to
> >> set up Git natively at Apache. So every project is free to move to Git
> >> meanwhile.
> >> We can even take over the mentioned project from Github to ASF and
> >> then mirror back
> >> to GitHub.
> >>
> >> If folks decide that GitHub is the canonical place of code, it would
> >> end this incubation. its of course perfectly reasonable, not every
> >> project makes a good fit at Apache. That said, I believe Wave would
> >> benefit from the foundation. But in the end, its a decision being made
> >> by the project.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Scott Wilson <
> >> > scott.bradley.wilson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> On 12 Jun 2013, at 22:08, Upayavira wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > All I can say is, "well said". We need to consider Wave as a young
> >> >> > project - one that really doesn't yet have anything set in stone.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I've heard Apache described as a 'do-ocracy', that is, he who
does,
> >> >> > decides.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If there's an approach you think would be good, start coding,
show
> us
> >> >> > your work (stick it on Github or somewhere), and we can see about
> >> >> > getting it a place in the Wave repo itself.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > In the end, what the Wave project exists for is to release
> products.
> >> To
> >> >> > release products, we need real code. Let's get started with some
> >> >> > experiments that, if successful, can eventually morph into real
> >> >> > products.
> >> >>
> >> >> When Wave first entered the Incubator I offered my Node
> implementation
> >> of
> >> >> the Wave Gadgets API as a contribution:
> >> >>
> >> >> https://github.com/scottbw/wave-node
> >> >>
> >> >> At that time the Wave project was still in the middle of sorting
> itself
> >> >> out so couldn't really think about absorbing more products.
> >> >>
> >> >> However, maybe its worth considering again?
> >> >>
> >> >> The module above also has integration with Apache Wookie (Wookie also
> >> >> implements the Wave Gadgets API, but the default implementation uses
> >> comet
> >> >> and isn't as fast). Wookie is deployed automatically as part of
> Apache
> >> >> Rave, which then offers a practical distribution method for
> Wave-related
> >> >> products as part of enterprise social portals.
> >> >>
> >> >> Its also worth pointing out I think that ShareJS + Wave-Node =
> basically
> >> >> Wave in Node but without the federation stuff ... though unlike
> Joseph
> >> I'm
> >> >> quite happy to give up maintaining my code in Github for a chance to
> be
> >> >> part of something bigger :)
> >> >>
> >> >> S
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Upayavira
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013, at 09:04 PM, Thomas Wrobel wrote:
> >> >> >> I have been working on a geolocation (/augmented reality)
specific
> >> Wave
> >> >> >> project:
> >> >> >> arwave.org
> >> >> >> I am not sure how suitable this is.
> >> >> >> Its effectively a client that I (badly) want to be compatible
with
> >> any
> >> >> >> standard wave server.
> >> >> >> As there was no standard client/server protocol for the last
few
> >> >> >> years, I gave up, and instead made it work with XMPP/jabber
chat.
> >> >> >> Obviously, losing persistency along the way and crippling
its
> >> >> >> usefulness.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Would this project fit under the apache wave umbrella? I still
> want
> >> to
> >> >> >> make it a wave server client - but untill the servers have
the
> >> >> >> protocol in place to allow that, it will be effectively just
a
> xmpp
> >> >> >> client for a specific use.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -Thomas Wrobel.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ps. Of course, I am happy to help out any wave developments
I am
> >> >> >> skilled enough to do anyway.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On 12 June 2013 21:48, Michael MacFadden <
> >> michael.macfadden@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>> Wavers,
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> It has become clear that there a MANY more people are
interested
> in
> >> >> Wave
> >> >> >>> that we had previously thought.  There recent explosion
of
> interest
> >> is
> >> >> >>> fantastic.  However, what I am seeing is that the wave
community
> is
> >> >> >>> splintered and fragmented.  There are a lot of people
who have
> been
> >> >> doing
> >> >> >>> development work on wave related concepts like OT, federation,
> etc
> >> >> outside
> >> >> >>> of Apache Wave.  Maybe they thought they were not welcome.
 Maybe
> >> they
> >> >> >>> though the existing code base was headed in the wrong
direction.
> >> >>  Maybe they
> >> >> >>> thought we would not be open to their project ideas. 
Who knows.
> >> >>  Whatever
> >> >> >>> the reason, there have been many side projects all over
the web
> some
> >> >> how
> >> >> >>> related to wave.  Either inspired by wave, or developed
to
> explore
> >> some
> >> >> >>> alternative to the way wave did something.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I would like to try to unite these efforts in to one umbrella
> >> project.
> >> >>  From
> >> >> >>> a code base perspective, we can create multiple folders
in our
> >> >> repository
> >> >> >>> were proof of concepts and side projects can exist along
side
> WiaB.
> >> If
> >> >> this
> >> >> >>> drives activity and interest to Apache Wave, then fantastic.
>  Sure
> >> we
> >> >> would
> >> >> >>> love to have 20 people jump in and help us with the current
> issues
> >> >> directly
> >> >> >>> in WiaB.  If people want to do that, by all means PLEASE
HELP.
>  But
> >> if
> >> >> that
> >> >> >>> is not what you are interested in, but you ARE interested
in some
> >> >> other path
> >> >> >>> forward, please join our community.  Please use Apache
Wave as
> your
> >> >> home to
> >> >> >>> develop Wave technology.  Be it OT, Clients, Protocols,
what have
> >> you.
> >> >> >>> There is nothing that says the WiaB in its current form
has to be
> >> the
> >> >> only
> >> >> >>> product produced by this project.  We could have a generic
core
> OT
> >> >> Engine /
> >> >> >>> API that powers wave.  We could have the core server that
> leverages
> >> >> this
> >> >> >>> engine.  We could have multiple clients, etc.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I specifically named the project Apache Wave and not Apache
Wave
> in
> >> a
> >> >> Box,
> >> >> >>> because the vision was the eventually this project would
become
> the
> >> >> home of
> >> >> >>> a whole ecosystem of wave related things.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> If there is one current truth, it is that none of our
groups has
> >> been
> >> >> >>> independently successful in developing and distributing
a widely
> >> used
> >> >> and
> >> >> >>> adopted OT based collaboration project.  I think together
we can
> be
> >> >> more
> >> >> >>> successful than apart.  Yes that means we have to hash
things
> out on
> >> >> the
> >> >> >>> mailing list occasionally, but I think we are all open
to input
> from
> >> >> anyone.
> >> >> >>> If we can create a place for side projects, then perhaps
people
> will
> >> >> be more
> >> >> >>> free to bring their ideas and efforts here.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> To that end, I would put a call out to people who are
currently
> >> >> working on
> >> >> >>> related projects to officially joint the Apache Wave community.
> >> >>  Contribute
> >> >> >>> some code, whatever that may be.  Help start a proof of
concept
> for
> >> an
> >> >> OT
> >> >> >>> Engine, work on the client server protocol, whatever you
want to
> do,
> >> >> come do
> >> >> >>> it here.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Together we can keep our collective momentum.  Become
a committer
> >> >> here.  We
> >> >> >>> need you.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Sincere Regards,
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> ~Michael
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> http://www.grobmeier.de
> >> https://www.timeandbill.de
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.grobmeier.de
> https://www.timeandbill.de
>

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